Comment on this PC build for gaming

The Game Room
21

I recommend an Intel Core i7-930 Bloomfield quad-core chip.

The price point on those is excellent and the core is unlocked so, with a motherboard that will let you, it is possible to overclock it and easily achieve speeds that cost 4x as much or more. Note you will need a good heat sink to overclock realiably but with a good one people are getting 4 Ghz out of them (or better with super cooling setups). Even with a passable heat sink you can get 3.3Ghz which if bought costs 3x as much.

Really great chip.

Note the above is a Bloomfield core so you’d need a mobo that supports Socket LGA 1366.

Also note that this chip supports triple-channel memory setups. So if you get it be sure to buy three sticks of memory (and a mobo that supports it). E.g. Buy three sticks of 2GB each. They are sold this way now.

If not that then get the Intel Core i7-860 Lynnfield 2.8GHz

Not as good (and only barely cheaper than the Bloomfield chip) but more common these days and does dual-channel RAM. It runs on a socket LGA 1156 mobo.

The Bloomfield chip is only about $80 more than the chip listed in the OP and easily surpasses it. Well worth the extra money IMO.

And skip a dual card video setup unless you are rich. Getting dual cards will mean you have to pay a lot closer attention to heat issues as well as power issues for a not super-great jump in performance (if you have dual monitors or more than a dual GPU setup starts making sense). Best bet is to get a solid (1-2 steps back from top of the line) video card. If you want you can buy a second one in the future to keep the machine banging along or just get a whole other video card. Not all mobos can do this either so pay attention to that.

I run a Radeon 5870 and it plays just about everything at max settings at 1900x1200 (Crysis would push it a bit hard).

Some of the new top of the line cards are very long. Be sure your case can fit it.

22

Also, don’t worry about the monitor or a TV tuner. Nowadays, it’s simple to just buy a TV with computer input, unless you have to be able to watch TV while surfing the net at the same time in two different windows on your main computer monitor. It’s far superior to hook your computer up to a TV than to hook cable TV to your computer. However, if you must have a TV window with a browser window on the same screen, then get the tuner card or USB tuner.

The above, of course, is completely different advice than if you just want a multiple monitor setup and sometimes want to watch TV. In that case, just buy a video card with s-video or HDMI out and a TV with the in ports for them. Then, you can use the TV as an extended/second monitor most of the time and watch tv on it while keeping the computer screen free. TV’s nowadays treat computer input like another DVD player.

23

I did a study of this a long time ago, and it actually benefits you in the long run if:

a) you have the foresight and invest in the initial setup with an eye on adding the 2nd graphics card later. You need to buy a special mobo; a high wattage, dual rail PSU, and a case with a front-to-back 20-25cm fan. The above adds ~$100 to the cost.

b) You can wait at least 12 months before adding the 2nd card.

The reason this works is because of the price drop on graphics cards. In the initial 3 months after a new card is released, the price is the highest. A year later, it will be half or lower.

So, if uber-card X costs $600, and middling card Y costs $300, and 2 Y cards = X card, in a year, the total price of the two middling cards will be far lower than adding card X. Very likely, after a year, card X will be $300, card Y will be $100 (for a total cost of $400 with a savings of $100 after accounting for the additional $100 investment) and there will be a new uber card for $600.

ATI Radeon cards are especially well suited for this strategy. Their numbering system allows different model cards to be Xfired. Iirc, you can Xfire any x7xx card with any other x7xx card, e.g. 3750 and 4750 (something like that, I forget which number was the important one. But as long as those two numbers match, the cards can be Xfired.) They also have special proprietary software that gets an additional 10% performance out of their components when used with other ATI/AMD products. This is especially cool when doing this with dual chip GPU’s and triple slot mobos. I want to make a ghetto comp with 6 crappy GPU’s. :smiley:

NVidia cards, on the other hand, have a secret performance bonus. If you have a mobo with integrated graphics using the Nvidia chipset, and add an NVIDIA video card anyway, you can get a slight boost in performance by having them do a quasi-SLI setup. Otherwise, only two exactly same cards can be connected together.

Note: I am not advocating a dual video card setup. You should always buy the best graphics card available. This strategy is only insurance against short-term obsolescence.

24

I have a Nvidia GT 240 and it’s very much yesterday’s card. It doesn’t do DX 11, and more modern games at limited resolutions and Anti Aliasing. It’s fine for DX10 games at 1280x1024 with no AA, or DX9 with AA. But it won’t be any good for gaming at 1920x1080.

On the Nvidia side the price/performance sweet spot is the 1 GB GTX 460, but that may be about to change with the release of a new card. ATI were there first and have a new series of cards under wraps, with strategic leaks.

I believe that Superhal is slightly incorrect with his comments about multiple cards. On the Nvidia side, you cannot SLI different cards, but what you can do is dedicate one card to PhysX. On the ATI side, I believe that both cards need to be the same series e.g. 5xxx or 4xxx.

ETA: it’s probably not important to you, but ATI cards support 3 monitors, whereas non-SLI Nvidia cards only support two.

25

Is this sarcastic? Cause like… no. I mean, 2 and 3 are a reasonable option but a 1200 watt power supply is absurd for almost everyone. There are hardly any hardware-pushing games being developed anymore, everyone is chasing the 2004 low end console hardware for their programming. SLI is rarely worthwhile.

What games that are out now or are coming out have minimum requirements higher than a 240? I wouldn’t recommend buying it for a new system, but you wouldn’t be totally outdated - it would probably run almost every game out there now at medium resolutions at medium settings ok. Not very future proof, but very few developers are taking advantage of the technological advances of the last 5 years anyway.

I disagree with this assessment because I made the same call a few months ago and went with the i7-870. I can’t remember all the reasons - but I do recall that the 1366 stuff was all more expensive for not much performance benefit, and IIRC the 930 uses 30-40% more power than the 870 for very little reason. The 930 barely has a performance edge.

Anyway, to the OP - spend a little more and get a Radeon 5770 or Geforce GTX 460.

26

Overclocking my friend.

I agree out of the box the difference is not so great. Have a decent cooler and a mobo with a good set of tweakability options and you’re off to the races.

As I said it is easy to find people getting the i7-930 to 4Ghz on air cooling (very good air coolers) and beyond with better cooling than that. Getting to 3.3 Ghz is a breeze for even a neophyte with a modest setup. That chip bought would cost over $1,000. You can do the same with the 930 for under $300.

If the user has no intention of overclocking then I would go your way.

27

I would also recommend trying to find a more powerful GPU. Take a look at these benchmark charts and then scroll way way down to see how it compares to a lot of other cards.
http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/gaming-graphics-cards-charts-2009-high-quality/Sum-of-FPS-Benchmarks-1920x1200,1833.html

28

I based it solely on a previous thread that listed the minimum spec for Civ 5 as a 9600 GT, which the GT240 is close enough too.

29

Have you seen evidence that the 930 is a significantly better overclocker? The power consumption difference alone would hesistate to make me assume that. Is it an issue of locked and unlocked multipliers?

30

The i7 930 and i7 875k (which replaced the i7 870) pretty much overclock the same. The 930 is a cheaper chip than the 875k, but the superior x58 platform it uses costs much more than the p55 platform. The reason to get an i7 930 is x58.

31

All right, here’s afinal build I have in mind:

Genuine Windows® 7 Home Premium 64bit (English)
Intel® Core™ i5-760 Processor (2.80GHz, 1333MHz FSB, 8MB Cache)
McAfee® Security Center 11 (Multi Language) - 15 months
Dell ST2320L 23”W Full HD Monitor with LED
6GB (2x2GB/2x1GB) DDR3 SDRAM 1333MHz Memory
1TB SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive with Native Command Queuing
Single Drive: 16X CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW) w/double layer write capability
1GB NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 460
Integrated high definition 7.1 channel audio

It costs about USD 1,417.15 in my area though. The GTX 460 is the most powerful card Dell could afford. I can’t downgrade anything from the list except the GTX 460 to GTS 240.

Honestly, I would go DIY and save about 300 USD if not for support and warranty.

Edit: Do I need a sound-card? What’ the purpose of a sound card nowadays?

PS. Oh Dave Hartwick feel free to hop on the bandwagon. I suspect we be quite poorer after the next few days…

32

That is an LGA1156 socket processor you have there which is going the way of the Dodo Bird.

It is common today but in the future there is little upgrade path to be had.

Consider getting a LGA1366 processor if you want to future-proof your machine.

Also not sure how this part works in your post:

“6GB (2x2GB/2x1GB) DDR3 SDRAM 1333MHz Memory”

Seems an odd setup but I suppose it’ll work. Why not 3x2GB? Again allows you better room for upgrades in the future. I am puzzled why the people you are buying from are doing it this way…sounds like they are unloading stock on you they cannot otherwise sell.

Integrated audio had gotten better. A separate sound card removes some load from the CPU but these days that is not too much an issue (used to be). If you want to do some professional audio work then a separate sound card is in order. If it is just games the built in one is fine (especially with multi-processor systems).

If support/warranty are important to you (e.g. if you are not a propeller head who is comfortable building your own system) then go for a pre-built system. Personally I build all my own PCs and have for a decade and won’t ever buy from Dell or their ilk but I know this is not for most people which is fine. To each his own.

Me? I want the most bang for my buck and would rather apply Dell’s profit to a better machine.

That said note there are a lot of little fiddly bits when building your own PC you may not account for in the price such as a PSU, case, fans, heatsink, cables (maybe), shipping, thermal paste (ok, that part is not much) and so on. Building your own PC can have great results or be a nightmare depending on your skill level.

If you choose to DIY post to the SDMB and a number of people can walk you through the gotchas.

33

It’s worth considering, but not essential IMO. There are additonal costs involved because you will have to go for 6GB tri-channel RAM and a more expensive motherboard.

Personally I think you’ll be very unlikely to upgrade the CPU in a timeframe that would make it worthwhile. In a couple of years you will have to change the mobo anyway and that will usually be <100$. I have never, ever upgraded a CPU by itself.

That sounds dodgy to me too. That configuration will actually lose you memory performance because it uses all four slots of a dual-channel controller. And with mis-matched sticks no less :rolleyes:

For an 1366 you want 32GB RAM, for an 1156 22GB. Personally I think 4GB will be more than enough for quite a long time unless you have specific requirements, and by the time you need it RAM should be cheaper.

For gaming you are best off going for 4GB and spending the extra money on more GPU power.

Agreed. If you’re on a budget a soundcard is completely unnecessary. You would get better value for the money spending it on better speakers.

Just mkae sure you get a GOOD PSU. Someone like Corsair for instance and not a generic cheapo one.

There must people other than Dell who sell PC’s in North America? Shops that have better customization options? You might even save money by not having to get all the Dell crap you don’t want.

34

Fair comment. I have never upgraded a CPU without upgrading the mobo either. I think they have the timeframes nailed pretty well and after 4(ish) years whatever I upgrade to will need both a new processor and mobo. Still, can be a consideration and the newer socket version allows for tri-channel RAM. Yes the whole thing will be more expensive but I (personally) think the extra money is money saved in the long run as it gives your system legs the 1156 wouldn’t (i.e. you will be upgrading sooner with the 1156 socket).

Agreed. That the seller put forth such a config bothers me. Makes me not trust them as they seem to be trying to unload on unsuspecting customers. Does not inspire confidence in them.

Amen to that!

Dell and their ilk tend to skimp here and it is an easily overlooked component. A good PSU is worth the money…can’t stress that enough. I agree Corsair is great (I have bought two and they are golden). Enermax makes good ones, so does Silverstone. Antec is worth a look too. Probably a few others but hard to go wrong with those guys (if you do not want to research go with Corsair…hard to do better).

35

You can’t do 3x 2GB because p55 is dual channel. 3x doesn’t work on dual channel. There is nothing wrong with 6 GB of RAM. 6 GB is better than 4 GB. You can’t have too much RAM with Vista/Win7.

Your final computer is great. You’ll enjoy it for sure.

36

If you are capable of building your own computer, then what makes you think the Dell support and warranty is worth the 300? How is the Dell support and warranty so much superior to the warranty provided by every manufacturer of the individual parts? What wonderful things will Dell support tell you that makes you think it's just great that you settled on a GTX460 (although it is probably the best performance/ if you buy it as part of a DIY) instead of spending that extra $300 on a GTX470 or 480, or Radeon5870. $300 gone on Dell’s completely standard warranty when it could be spent on a night of heavy drinking and hookers. Tell me, what magical things do they say that makes the $300 so worth it?

Since you seem to be comfy with DIY then do it. You have a lot of people here and on sites like Newegg, Tom’s, Techreport, etc. that will give you the information you need to buy the best stuff for your currency.

37

There are shops here in Singapore would put together computers based on the specifications you give them.

I’m not a hardware person, and has no intentions to fiddle with the parts. DIY is an option because 1) I have friends who don’t mind helping to put parts together and 2) shops here do put computer together. Troubleshooting is an entirely other matter, as the shops don’t handle that or you have to pay extra fee. I have experience with DIY computers failing times and times again and I just spent money getting replacement parts till I settle on something that works; and I have no idea.

38

I see, I didn’t understand precisely what you meant by DIY. If you have friends that are willing to help put it together then you at least have friends here who are willing to help you find the parts that have the least potential for failure.

As far as troubleshooting goes, you will now have a secondary PC for spare parts in order to check the state of your new parts (in case of failure).

That said, the build you are looking at from Dell is going to be great, just a bit pricey.

39

There is some risk involved with DIY but the tradeoff is with cost. About 2-3 years ago (when quad core chips were first coming out) I had a place custom build a pretty high-end computer for me for ~600, 700 after shipping charges (although I already had windows and a monitor.)

If you don’t want to do DIY, you’ll pay more. For some people, that’s fine. In my case, because I did DIY, I can get 2 computers for the price of 1 Dell. If I strip out the good parts from that computer (harddrive, power supply, case, optical drive, etc.) I could upgrade for ~$200, meaning I could get 3-4 computers for the price of 1 Dell.

A co-worker told me his theory of buying computers: whatever your budget is, divide by 3 and plan to buy a new cheapo computer every year. It’s easier to buy a cheap new computer than to upgrade an older one, and the new technology gets cheaper every year, so next year’s cheapo computer will be far better than this years.

I actually saw this in action. I bought a laptop in March of this year just before Windows 7 came out for $400. My wife bought one in July after windows 7 for $600. Her computer is literally twice as good as mine (2X larger hd, 2X more memory, blue ray instead of dvd, etc. etc.)

40

But then you always have a crap PC. A good PC would easily still be as good as the year 2 PC and probably not far behind the year 3 PC, particularly if you take into account the crappyness of the components used to build the cheapo ones. This is especially true now because component prices have remained pretty stable in the last year, the PC I built in October last year would only be slightly cheaper now.

In some ways it might work better for laptops than desktops, but with laptops build quality is also important (to me at least). I’ve seen far too many cheap Dell laptops with horrible plastic cases that break at the slightest tumble to want one for myself.

When you get a cheapo PC you get what you pay for in most cases. The trick is finding the sweet spot between performance, longevity and cost.