So which PC should I get?

Okay, you guys. I’m getting a new PC relatively soon (I hope to have it before the dopefest in late August) and I’m stuck between two:

Pentium 4 Processor 1.5GHz
17" monitor
some sort of printer
128MB PC800 RDRAM memory
40 gig hard drive
v.90 high-speed modem (which I won’t even use for a while)
10/100 network card (for ethernet, which I will use)
32MB graphics card
speakers and a subwoofer
Free Intel Pocket COncert Audio Player (value $300)

All this for $1600 (which will be lower once I tell them I don’t want MSN service for a year)

Or:

Pentium 4 Processor 1.7GHz
17" monitor
Epson Stylus color 777i printer
128MB RDRAM
80 gig hard drive
no modem
10/100 ethernet card
movie editing and video email
i.LINK cable
MSWord 2002
Windows Me

All this for @2220

So which would you choose? I’m leaning toward the latter because I’m not planning an upgrade for a while after this one. And I really have no use for that concert thingy.

Go for the latter. The only drawback it seems to have is the lack of a modem, and you say that you’re not going to use that for a while, anyway. Even when it comes time to use the modem, you can pick one up for $20.

What sort of video card comes with the latter? Sound? If they’re built-in to the motherboard, you may want to reconsider… built-in sound and video ain’t worth dick.

Don’t sell the Athlon short - It’s a great processor and as comparetivly as fast as the P4 but cost less. I have one (upgraded a while ago to 1ghz) and love it. And put that money you save to more ram or bigger HD.

Yeah, just to back up k2Dave, an Athlon 1.4G with an AMD 760 chipset and DDR memory will not only outperform any available P4 system in many if not most cases, it’s a lot cheaper. Don’t go for a VIA chipset with an AMD CPU, though. VIA sucks.

Video and sound:

32MB SDR GeForce2 MX graphics
Sound Blaster Live! audio card
JBL Platinum speakers with subwoofer (which I probably won’t get b/c I already have a good system)

for the $1600 one

and the $2200 one doesn’t say. It’s a Sony, which gives me pause (Sony isn’t known for its computers as far as I know).

Well, the GF2MX is a nice “budget” video card. If you are even thinking about borrowing a new game in the future, this card should represent the absolute minimum needed to run it. Don’t let someone try to tell you that an older-generation video card like a Matrox will run games just fine. I own one, it won’t, and it never did. ATI Radeons are okay, though.

The SBLive! is a fine audio card, but it has some major compatability problems with all sorts of other hardware and software. How do you become the last, if not only, word in computer audio and still have major compatability problems? I don’t know. Presumably, your pre-made system is designed without kinks.

I hate to say it, but neither one of those systems appears to represent a balanced high-performance solution. If either offered a top graphics card, they would by-god tell you. $2200 is getting into some serious high-potential territory.

Perhaps you might consider the Area 51, which (with a 19" monitor and minus the speakers) comes in just above your $2200 Sony, with shipping. It will also eat the Sony for breakfast. No printer, though. If you fiddle with the customizable options, you might be able to put something together even cheaper.

But hey, I’m a geek. Your objectives may vary from my own.

IMHO, you should stay away from the Sony. Sony doesn’t even live up to its hype on the stuff it does make reasonably well. Also, if they don’t say what kind of video and sound it has, that almost certainly means it’s junk–probably on-board junk, which is even worse.

I also recommend that Athlon chips. You can get considerably more bang for your buck that way.

So, Sofa King, Balance and k2dave, what 1) sound card, 2) video card (assuming the ones I profiled), 3) sound system (if my speaker set isn’t good enough) and 4) general other stuff would you recommend to a semi-geek who wishes he were more so? Bear in mind I will be installing shit left and right when I get this (see Diablo, AoEII, Black and White, Civ, school progs, internet stuff, etc).

I’m thinking I will probably go to the local geek pc store (Microcenter) and say “Can you build this?”

Microcenter is pretty cool in that they will build you a decent system with a decent warranty. However, if you want to go all out, I recommend Advanced 2000, in Crystal City. They have much more trick hardware for cheaper. No warranty, though, beyond non-working parts. When I build mine, I’m probably going to have it shipped, because you can often get the tweakier stuff only over the Internet.

Want my system recommendations for today? These are based largely on a system a good pal of mine is building. I don’t have an accurate price, but all told, it should come close to $2000, give or take a few hundred. Warning: there is more than a little geek-speak below. You asked for it, remember.

AMD Thunderbird AYJHA (“y”-core) 1.4 GHz CPU
Millenium Glaciator heatsink with Delta 7K fan and Arctic Silver thermal paste and copper shim
Epox EP-8K7A DDR Motherboard
Crucial, Mushkin, or Corsair 256 MB PC2100 DDR RAM
GeForce 3 video card (cheapest you can find)
Creative Labs SoundBlaster Live! 5.1 PCI audio card
Creative/Cambridge 5.1-ready speakers
60 GB 7200 RPM hard drive (my pal insists on IBM, I’ll settle for Maxtor)
Plextor CD burner (or equivalent with Burn-Proof technology)
Generic DVD-ROM drive
A halfway decent Network Interface Card (NOT Realtek OR 3Com, if possible. 3Com’s problem is the fucked up drivers that ship with Windows 98.)
Antec 1030 server case w/ 350 watt PS and 3 fans–black
NEC MultiSync 19" monitor–black
Keyboard, mouse, floppy, etc., black, in my friend’s case.

You can cannibalize a lot of the peripheral crap from your old computer, if you like. I usually do. My buddy is going for the full pull, with teflon-coated, rounded IDE cables, an Intel NIC, a laser-mouse, and a ZOOM modem, which I happen to like a whole lot.

Notes:

This system is designed to be overclocked as high as possible without active cooling like a peltier or a waterblock. Hence the “y” core Thunderbird, which seems to have the potential to run at 1.6 GHz or higher with air-cooling alone. The Epox mobo can only be overclocked using archaic jumper settings, but it is extremely stable and it does not use the VIA southbridge which appears to be the problem with many AMD systems and SoundBlaster cards. Counting all the fans, this mother should move well over 100 cubic feet per minute.

Why AMD? The answer is simple. AMD chips allow you to defeat the multiplier lock on the chip, allowing you to select the highest possible front side bus AND chip speed simultaneously. Intel chips have a fixed multiplier which to date has not been defeated, limiting your overclocking options to raising the front side bus. And AMD chips and the DDR memory they use are cheaper than the P4 and that Rambus shit, which you should avoid on principle alone, the bastards.

We expect some notable BIOS revisions which should improve the Epox’s memory bandwidth somewhat. If not, no biggie–we’re going to try to run this puppy at a 150 MHz (300 MHz DDR) front side bus or greater anyway, but we’ll be happy with anything stable over 145 or so.

The GeForce 3 just broke the sub-$300 barrier this week. Woo! It will be worth every penny if you buy it right now and don’t read the tech pages in October/November when a faster card comes out.

While it is not really an issue any longer, you should keep in mind that AMD chips need a minimum 300W power supply. Scottie said it best. You need more powehdrrr.

Remember, you interface with your computer through the monitor. You want a big monitor. You want a big monitor. You want a big monitor. To go below nineteen inches borders on the criminal when the NEC MultiSync is out there for a mere $300. You can compromise on virtually any facet of this system except the 19" minimum. Once you have it, you will never go back.

My pal went for the server case because it is bad-ass. And, it has a fan each blowing over the removeable hard-drive tray and the video card. You can get it in black, which is waaaay cool. When I build my system this fall, I will stick with the cheaper beige because I plan to cover the case with bumper stickers. (Anti-theft, don’t you know. Nobody wants to steal a computer that looks like a piece of shitty furniture.)

This system will be big, fast, and LOUD. Loud like a floor fan, only with a more annoying sound. You will not want to sleep with this monster purring away in your bedroom. I estimate that it will fall just short of $2000, with shipping, but I’ll have to ask my friend about that. That may be without the monitor.

A system like this should be able to play the latest games for two full years, while the office software out there may never catch up to it. If you plan on running Windows 2000 or XP, a (hopefully still) cheap upgrade will be simply popping in a second 256 MB stick of RAM. We’re avoiding that now in the interests of overclocking.

I myself have decided to wait for one thing, and one thing alone. That is the nVidia nForce motherboards which will be coming out sometime around October. If they kick the ass that they are expected to kick, without the bugs most new hardware releases have, I’ll go with one of those. Otherwise, I’ll likely be building this same system for a few hundred bucks less than you would pay for it today. In the computer world, this system is as close to a safe bet as you can get right now, IMHO.

But don’t take my word for it. Check out the message boards over at http://www.arstechnica.com and http://www.hardocp.com for other recommendations. No doubt some uber-geek over there would trash my recommendations. He might even be right.

Neither of these computers is worth $2200, IMHO.

For a friend of my wife’s, I just priced out a fairly strong high-midrange AMD system with video editing as it’s primary purpose for around $800 (256MB DDR, AMD 1.2, 60 gig hard drive, ATI Radion All-In-Wonder 32 MB, FIC motherboard), buying it in pieces. I’m sure another $500 or so would put it in line with the systems mentioned.

Checkout tomshardware.com to find out what pieces you want, and then priceline.com to find the best prices on them.

Oh, and since you mentioned Diablo, if you get the expansion pack of DII, Act V just doesn’t seem to work with less than 256 MB of ram.

Vor

Well, yesterday was yesterday and today is today. I now recommend the Abit KG7 over the Epox motherboard. Abit is the king when it comes to overclocking and tweaking–lots of fun.

I think both of the systems listed in the OP are over-priced. I would definitely get an Athlon over a P4 – they’re both cheaper and faster.

Sofa King speaks wisdom, although if I was buying the system, I’d probably choose a slower CPU and RAM. You can save a lot of money that way, and few users will ever notice the difference in performance. (So I’d just go with a 1.2 GHz Athlon with 512 megs of PC133. The latter can be had for $90.) I’d also only buy a GeForce2 card – you can get one for around $100-150. Upgrade to the GeForce3 when the 4 comes out.

I play games, and like to have the newest hardware, but I’ve lost interest in paying twice as much to get the latest and greatest, when the performance gains are minor.

Just which chipset would you recommend? The vast majority of Slot-A motherboards incorporate at least the VIA south bridge. SIS is supposedly now shipping an Athlon bridge chip (all in one chip rather than the traditional two!) and AMD has developed a SMP-capable chipset for the new Palomino chips, but everything else is VIA other than some very early Socket-A boards with the prototype AMD Irongate chipset.

Asus makes Socket-A motherboards using the ALi 1647 chipset (ALi M1647 Northbridge and ALi M1535D+ Southbridge). AMD also manufactures its own chipset, the AMD-761 (which apparently does not perform quite up to par with either the ALi or VIA chipsets yet). While VIA may be the major player, it isn’t the only one.

FTR, I have an Asus A7A266, which is the aforementioned Asus ALi-based chipset motherboard. Aside from some initial minor BIOS issues (which have been addressed in subsequent updates), I haven’t had any problems with either performance or hardware conflicts. Of course, when I actually get around to purchasing DDR RAM (the board supports both SDR and DDR RAM), performance will probably increase…

Wow. This thread is almost carnal pleasure for a semi-geek (wannabe real geek) like me.

Sofa, as always you are a fount of knowledge. I kneel before you in abject awe. I would kiss your feet, but they’re all covered in bumper stickers:)

The only big problem I have is the power issue. Since I’ll be living in student housing (an apartment on campus), I have no earthly idea if I’ll be able to so much as get the thing to run. You said it wasn’t an issue, but this college seems to be bent on saving money wherever possible (to the point of entering into legal contracts and promptly breaking them). They put five people in a room big enough for two. They do this all over the place. I am operating under the assumption that my apartment, which is built for six people, will likely have seven to nine. So I don’t know if that kind of power will be available without making the lights flicker, so to speak.

One of my big issues since the start has been getting a big-ass monitor. I wanted one with an 18" display because the larger ones seem to get incrementally large in terms of price. I attribute that to two things: incrementally larger screen size (18" viewing is 324 square inches, ignoring curviness; 19" is 361 square inches) and the ability to sell the stuff for lots of $ because people will pay for it.

I plan to keep my keyboard and mouse and hopefully sell my screen unless someone else is going to use it (in which case I will sell their screen and get the $ for it). I’m even considering selling my old HD once it’s wiped clean (I’ll transfer files to my new PC . . . about 5 gig worth).

However, I’m not really interested in playing with the computer in the way of overclocking and such, since I don’t want to do too much to it that could void the warranty. And the noise will possibly (probably) be an issue since I tend to run computers allllll night.

60 gigs is about 20 shy of what I wanted (because it sucks to run out of memory and I’ll probably be an installing slut). But basically other than that I’ll probably go to various places and get quotes this Friday and Saturday. And, of course, I’ll report back to this thread.

I haven’t ever built a computer before, and with the stuff I’ll be seeing here I don’t know that I want to risk it. My mother’s a techie, but she works in documentation and as far as I know hasn’t been close to building a computer. Ever. So I might say “what would it cost for you to make this all play nicely for me?” and hope the place is reputable. For that I might go to the place in Crystal City alone.

iampunah -
Like everybody else has said, don’t buy either of those systems.

Go to pricewatch and you’ll find much, much better deals on everything you’ll need to build yourself a phat system.

If you wanna go Intel, then do the 1.7G chip thing but I don’t know to much about it other than the fact that the AMD chips run rings around it in graphics.

If you wanna go AMD, I would recomend the 1.4 Athlon T-bird, running on the 266 bus, with a fantastic motherboard and cpu fan, already put together, that you can get off of pricewatch for $226
Also you could pick up a:
100GB HDD for $288 or a
80GB HDD for $185

PC Nic for $13

19in Moniter for $168

Geforce3 video card for $149

24X10X40 Rewritable drive for $155

and a bunch of other good stuff… for just $999
Hope this helps

iampunha - if you wish to be a real geek, then I must make a minor nitpick:

Hard disk storage is just that - storage, not memory.

And, for the record, building a system is not as difficult as one might think. After you do one, you can only wonder at the sometimes-exhorbitant prices people are willing to pay to have one built.

I’m on my second self-built machine, and it is remarkably similar to Sofa King’s recommendation, above.

Oh…and to a true geek, warranties are for wimps :slight_smile:

I do believe you’re right, sewalk, about the VIA southbridge. My bad. Many of the newer boards have turned to hybridized systems which ditch most of the VIA KT266 components, but not the southbridge.

Oh, about the power supply. Really, don’t worry about it. The power supply is just a small vented box inside your computer that sends juice to the various fans and components. What I was talking about is the comparatively high power that AMD mobos and CPUs require by comparison to older systems. Used to be a 225 watt power supply would run any PC just fine, but an Athlon will starve to death and start freaking out if it doesn’t have a 300 watt power supply. They all plug right into the wall and use a lot less electricity than, say, a microwave oven. Then again, you don’t play Black and White on your microwave.

Putting computers together is actually really easy, the second or third time around. If you do elect to go with building your own, 'punha, I’ll be happy to donate my coffee table to the project and help you out.

My work doesn’t come with much of a warranty, though.

1st let me state:
My recomendations as to what pc other people will need are mainly business/web surfing in nature.

I personally like RTS games over FPS and the video requirements are usually less. I personaly have a geforce 2 w/ 32m DDR and I can run any game I chose w/o cutting back or jerkiness - but then again I rarely play FPS’s.

If you play fps’s I would go with the Geforce 3. If you are not really into those games I would go for a sub $200 vid card and perhaps get more ram.

As for sound - That depends what you want and how important is that higher sound quality. I think the speakers are the most important link in a sound system and I would rather see extra money go to the speakers then the sound card.

Really you havn’t told us on how you plan to use this system - it really makes a big diffrence as to what components to splurge on and which to scimp.
Here are the major players (IMHO):
1 - CPU (Athlon is a win win over intel)
2 - RAM (type and amount)
3 - Opal (Hi)
4 - Video
5 - HardDrive

This is what we can play around with to customize it to your needs. If you want to go crazy with the sound card - fine - if you want a plextor cd-rw go for it (it’s great I have it) but these 5 components are what you should be spending the majority of you money on for performance.

I want to use this for my sig, but I’m afraid too few people would get it. And a sig about hot monkey sex is hard to come by:)

But thanks for the reassurement about power. This is one (of many) area(s) where I dunno much at all (power). So here I was thinking it needed the electricity needed to run a few dryers or something.

As for what I want to do with the machine:

  1. Play big-ass games (like DiabloIIExpansion, AoEIIExpansion, B&W, and other stuff that catches my fancy). With my current processor I get bogged down in AoEII if I have more than, say, 300 units total in the game. This gets worrisome when I have 1200 and the game goes waaaaay slow.

  2. Surf the net for days at a time without rebooting or worrying about caches and such.

  3. Say hello to Opal whenever I want.

  4. Be able to run pretty much whatever I want in the way of software apps (writing progs, etc) and not worry about running out of resources.

  5. Be able to install the full version of a game instead of the minimum. These days if I want to install a new game I have to uninstall another one to make room. That can get awfully annoying (not to mention the worry that random game files are floating around).

The speakers aren’t an issue; I got a $50 set this past year and they work just great. They work for boomboxes, too, which is always lots of fun.

Tyklfe: I love you, too:)

In the words of one of the Dixie Chicks, “You guys are awesome!”