I didn’t want to hijack the Highway Weigh Stations thread. But towards the end of the thread (as I read it now) was a comment about electronic weights and transponders, reminding me to ask about drivers logbooks.
As I understand it, drivers are limited to something like an 11-on, 13-off schedule* meaning they can only drive for eleven hours–independent of mileage–before a mandatory “rest period.” I seem to remember hearing that Weigh Stations and Highway Patrol could examine paper logbooks on demand, which helped give rise to pairs of books: books you showed your company for pay, and “DOT compliant” books you showed the police. I think a lot of this has gone by the wayside with GPS and electronic records. Am I remembering it correctly?
Also, frequently on my drives on I-40 between here and Amarillo (and just about every other stretch of US Interstate I’ve driven), I see semi-trucks pulled off at exit ramps/rest stops/truck stops. I assume this is drivers getting their rest in before continuing on their next shift, correct?
Note: I probably have this wrong. But eleven hours sticks out in my head. . .
Tripler
There are two songs in my head, simultaneously right now: Convoy and Amarillo by Morning.
I don’t know how different it is in Canada, but for a short time recently I was required to keep a commercial driver’s log. It was still recommended to keep a paper version of the log book, although you are permitted to use an electronic version. The hard copy recommendation is in case your battery dies, phone screws up or gets damaged, or any other of a dozen things that can go wrong with technology. Standing on the side of the road you have to show your log book to the officer then and there; if you can’t you get your ticket/fines/other. Since the fines and penalties are fairly steep (including your employer not wanting to continue employing someone with a bad record) it’s considered pretty cheap insurance to just keep a paper version. Not sure where things will be in a few years though.
Yes truckers pull over and sleep all the time. I had a trucker deliver a load to me which took close to his full number of daily hours. He asked if he could just park in my yard, sleep in the cab overnight, then leave the next day; I said sure. We have some pretty big loads come through where I am, and the drivers take the rules pretty seriously. We also have an entire group of officers dedicated to commercial traffic enforcement.
In Europe it’s all electronic, Every driver has a card that he puts in a tachograph at the start of his shift. The tacho records what the driver is doing, also the speed and other information. This info gets downloaded at base every 28 days or so.
The rules are complicated, but basically, nine hours driving with a break after (at the most) four and a half. It’s allowable to extend the driving to tan hours on three shifts in a week. Drivers have to take at least nine hours rest in twenty-four and a longer break after six shifts.
The complications are for things like ferry crossings (split shifts), having two drivers in the cab, and carrying animals among other things.
During my first career I was a Deputy Sheriff from 1982-2007. For about 19 of the those years I was out on the highway (though not at weigh stations not being a Trooper). There were several major interstates and U.S. highways going through our jurisdiction.
I can tell you I learned that back then most long haul drivers did have 2 sets of logs and referred to them as “comic books” because they were so easy to forge and manipulate.
I would be shocked if everything wasn’t all electronic now.
In the US it is moving/ has moved to all electronic. I’m pretty certain by law, buuuuut, not 100% certain as I don’t do over the road, strictly local and hourly so the time line for the job at the top of the work ticket is sufficient on the rare occasions I have to stop at a specific way station and they decide they want to see my logs.
The reason I think it’s by law is that there was a lot of stuff a few years ago about getting a device installed before the deadline or you wouldn’t be driving until you did, combined with, you can’t really fake an electronic log effectively(yet, that I know of).
I do believe there are a few other exceptions other than hourly/local; farm trucks and seasonal drivers maybe exempt from elogs, possibly a few others I’m not aware of or can’t think of right now.
I was driving on a freeway in Chicago. Traffic was bumper-to-bumper and barely moving (common). While I was at a full stop a semi behind me rolled into the back of my car. Not hard but still, semi vs car it was a pretty good bump. No injuries and minor damage to the bumper.
As it happened a police officer had someone pulled over at almost exactly that spot. We both pulled over behind the cop on the shoulder. The officer took my statement then told me I could go. He turned to the truck driver and said, “Let me see your logbook.” So, it is a thing for truckers and something that will be asked for in an accident. They do have to follow rules to ensure they get enough rest.
After us kids were grown my father decided he was sick of business and stockholder crap so he sold his business, bought a truck and became a ‘shanty shaker’, pulling mobile homes around the country. Mom drove with him. They traveled all 49 states (not Hawaii), much of Canada and some of Mexico. They said it was like being on vacation for 15 years.
This was from 1970 to 1985. I don’t know anything about the specifics but I know they did keep two sets of log books, just like their trucker friends.
This is from Quora, so take it with a grain of salt:
"It’s much easier than the days of the paper logs. You can pretty much get by with driving non-stop. It takes a little collusion with the dispatcher but it can very easily be done. Simply unplug your little tattletale box, run a load, return exactly to the place you unplugged, plug it back in, run another load legally and do it all again. The logs are seamless and you show a ten hour break.
So now what do you do with the extra miles on your truck? Nothing. The DOT looks at the sticker on your truck, sees “electronic logs” and goes on through with the rest of the inspection. Most of them have no clue or care because electronic logs are infallible right? (Sorry to give away your dirty secrets truckers but it’s true) even if they do look, it doesn’t make sense and they rack it up as a computer error."
Indeed. And one of the first things police officers in Europe will do when a truck is involved in an accident is to confiscate the tachograph, so it can be verified if these provisions, in particular the mandatory breaks for the driver to prevent fatigue, have been complied with. If not, that’s an offence, and it can lead to the truck driver getting responsibility (full or partial) for the accident on this ground alone. Trucking is a business that’s subject to severe competition and low margins, so there is a strong incentive for employers not to let their drivers take the prescribed breaks; consequently, this issue is a focus for police authorities.
These tachograph requirements have been in place for a long time; in the past, they were polygraph-like devices where a needle with a pencil at its tip would, at each moment, record the truck’s speed onto a circular sheet (picture here). Now it’s all electronic.
And has been mentioned in prior and subsequent posts these things can be faked.
Funny thing that truck drivers can only drive for 11 hours and then get 13 hours off.
If there are a bunch of sick calls my department can keep me on for up to 20 hours. And if that happens I’m still required to report to my next scheduled shift just 4 hours later. And if I get hit with a double or a double and a half shift and then take a sick day after I’ll get an IA case.
I can’t find it now, but I recently read an article about how truckers hate the electronic logs. Before, if they were 30-40 minutes away from home when they hit the hour limit, they would just push through and get home before resting; now they can’t. Some drivers are also complaining that the switch now forces them to sleep overnight in dangerous neighborhoods.
In the words of Mandy Rice-Davies. They would, wouldn’t they.
Truck drivers get paid by the hour or by the mile, so the more they do the higher their earnings. Anything that limits the hours they can spend at the wheel is bound to cause resentment, so they will come up with all kinds of difficulties.
In Europe, if a driver has to drive over the limit, they can make a paper printout and write the reason on it. So long as it is a once in a blue moon event, it will be overlooked.
Retired CVSA inspector here.
A driver of a commercial vehicle must submit his logbook for inspection anytime an officer with the authority asks for it requests it.
I suppose any law enforcement officer “could” request to see it but unless you’re trained and knowledgeable in Federal Hours of Service regulation, you’re not going to know what to look for anyway.
Understanding log-book rules and regulations for HOS is one of the most complex parts of a CVSA inspection procedure.
So many exceptions and the various rules; are you solo? Team driver ? Sleeper birth rules; sleeper birth rules for team drivers, north of 60 rules.
Federal hours of service rules are in place for good reason: fatigue kills.
I have great respect for the companies who pay their driver by the hour because it reduces all the bs and fraud with cheating hours of service laws.
Being paid by the mile highly incentivizes people into cheating the system and they drive until their exhausted; not the best idea when you’re behind the wheel of a 100,000+ pound load.
Most drivers now use ELD’s but the Russians had the hack for these after the first week they came out.
I was very careful with the log books and asked lots of questions and checked all their fuel and food receipts with the log book entry. I didn’t enjoy placing drivers out of service certain violations but falsifying your log was the worst thing you could do in my book.
The consensus here is that being caught breaking the law on hours and rests is less serious than committing fraud by falsifying the records. Back in the days of paper disks, it was always better to “lose” a disk. In these days of electronic recorders and computerised analysis, it has become much harder to cheat the system.
