It’s happened to me twice. The first time I figured it was just the car, which was admittedly very old and shitty. The second I went all the way to the top screaming and yelling, and got recompensed to some degree. I’ll never go back though.
Back in my home town my family dealt with the same independent shop for 40 years. The work was always done right, with no upsells, and the service was always good. I actually try to schedule routine serves for when I go back to visit my folks.
Always insist on the return of damaged parts.
This makes it tougher, but not impossible, for a shop to pull a scam. You may be given identical parts that came off of another car. Also be aware that some parts are going to be damaged in the removal process, and won’t yield any useful information about whether or not they needed to be replaced.
Tell the shop that you will show them to your brother/uncle/sister/nieghbour/etc who is a mechanic, when they get back from holiday.
And don’t expect this to have any effect. We in the field know that 99.9% of the time there is no such mechanic, and if there were you would have taken the car to them.
(they are your property).
Not any more if it’s a core and the price reflected the shop returning it to the supplier. You can certainly see the core, but you don’t own it unless you pay the core charge.
Get mean, on pricing, on esitimates. What ever the first price is, tell them… what the fuck???"“NO Fucking way!!” Call a tow truck, or tell them… I will find someone cheaper… 30 seconds later or one “i gotta check with the manager sir/maam” the price will come down by 15-25%… ( I once saw a muffler replacement fall from $300 to $125 on this gambit)
This may be helpful if you’re dealing with a scam shop, but you’re still better off finding a good shop than trying to outsmart a crooked one.
If you find an honest mechanic, recommend him/her to your friends, keep them in business.
And don’t deal with them as suggested above, or you’ll be looking again.
Cars today need very little maintainence. Changing the oil and filters is just about the only thing required. Which is why the oil-change joints have come up with all kinds of useless services-like “flushing” you transmission-NO manufacturer recommends this-and most advise against it. Or brake fluid-most modern cars do not need the fluid replaced-period! yet iff-lube rips off counltess women and clueless men doing this.
What I hate about iffylube: they tend to put oil drain plugs on with an impact wrench-which means they strip the threads-and if your oil leaks out, you can seize the engine (>$5000 repair)!
Avoid them, and go to an honest local mechanic.
Cite?
Wrong! Quoting from Volvo’s 2007 factory service schedule:
Brake fluid* Recommended to be replaced every three years or 37,500 miles whichever comes first. (If driven in mountainous or humid enviroments every one year)
Old possibley contaminated (with water) fluid could lead to braking problems.*
This has been on their service schedule as long as I can remember.
I once was in that same situation listening to their show. A caller with a 98 VW Golf 2.slow engine, was telling them that it required 20w50 oil, and that the ‘oil shop down the road’ put in 5w30, and that was causing a CEL to display. Tom & Ray were adamant that the 98 VW Golf with the 2.slow engine couldn’t possibly need 20w50 oil, and that couldn’t be the cause…
I of course, was driving down the road in a 98 VW Golf with 20w50 in the engine, and had personally seen the same issue following a ‘oil shop down the road’ incident. The manual calls for 20w50, which when I got the car, also took some explaining to my FIL (the only guy I know with a lift), who was on Tom & Ray’s side, but he finally came around.
As for anyone who gets the “This car is unsafe, and we can’t let you back on the road.” reply from a shop, should always remember to reply, “Ok, can I use your phone to call the police to investigate this for me?” I did it once, and mysteriously, the issues were no longer so important, and somehow didn’t seem to be a problem at the next shop to give me an estimate.
Why would you call the police?
Do auto shops have the moral/legal obligation to prevent unfit motor vehicles from leaving their care?
Legally I can’t keep your car unless you don’t pay the bill.
Morally, I will do everything in my power to keep an unsafe car off the road. I have even gone so far as to tow (at shop expense) a car to another place of repair.
I have stamped many a repair order as unsafe, and have the customer sign that they have been advised that it is unsafe.
Not much else I can do if you insist on being an idiot.
If they try to keep your vehicle (and you don’t owe them money) or they tried to physically keep you from leaving I can see where the police should be involved, but otherwise, no.
I’ll second that - very similar to the service schedule for my Citroen C5.
Thirded for my Honda Civic.
I skipped it because it sounded like a ripoff, but I’ve since read about it other places.
brake fluid absorbs water. Water laden brake fluid boils at a much lower temp which would mean you could boil the fluid out of your brakes if you over use them. Also water is corrosive. It can and will rust iron cylinders, and corrode aluminum parts.
Once the cylinders are corrode they need rebuilding or replacement. Aluminum cylinders are pretty much unrebuildable. Replacement is much more expensive than flushing your brake fluid.
If your rear brakes are drum then they are self adjusting. The adjusters work when you back up and apply the brakes. If they get loose you can go to a parking lot and hit the brakes a half dozen times while backing up. Repeat as necessary. Save your money for real repairs and give it to a good mechanic.
It’s pretty tough for even savvy guys to avoid being suckered.
A few years ago my F-350 Diesel suffered a serious malfunction. I usually do most of my car repair myself, but I’m not that familiar with Diesels, and I was pressed for time, so I brought it into the dealer. They said it had a “burned up wiring harness” and a mere $2,800 later it was good as new.
Fast forward to last month.
The truck had been acting peculiar for a while, and it suddenly exhibited the same symptoms as a few years ago. I did some research on the web, and decided that I had little to lose by shot-gunning the repair. I pulled off both valve covers and found a completely burned up wiring harness on one side. I bought new parts for both sides ($400 from the dealer) and installed them myself. Total time to do this job (in my driveway, with no special tools) was around 5 hours. Even if the dealer was charging Lawyer rates, there is no way that the original job should have cost nearly three grand, especially when I determined that they only replaced parts on one side. I was so pissed off when I realized that they just have most people by the short hairs, and will charge whatever they can get away with.
So be careful…
So pull your invoice and read it. What other parts were replaced? What was the total for parts out of the $2800? If the parts total more than $400 I feel it is safe to say they did more than just replace a wiring harness. How much was the labor?
I have seen many a customer that flat out told me that You only did X and charged me all this money. I pull the invoice and find that we did about 15 times X and the bill is entirely in line with what it should be.
1991 Dodge Caravan. Brown smelly sludge removed and fresh new pumped in. Of course it wasn’t jiffy-screw. Local independent called Grease Monkey did it in y2k.
It cost plenty but was cheaper than any other fix. The monkey that did the job said, “If it works you save lots of $$. If it don’t work then you know you have a more serious problem.” We finally got rid of the van in '07. The tranny worked just fine, rust had taken over around the rear axle mounts.
I agree with buying (and reading) the repair manual. One specific reason is that it prevents (or shields you against) the abuse of “you can’t replace X without replacing Y and Z.” I had a problem with a throttle position sensor once and had to go do research, which confirmed my suspicion that I was being messed around a bit by claims that three or four other adjacent parts necessarily needed to be replaced along with it.
I agree with asking to see the old parts.
Check out:
Calling the BBB is a good idea – they don’t have any enforcement ability really, but they do tend to attract and track complaints when there is a pattern of egregious abuse.
A final tip (and apologies to the honest shop guys here): before taking your car to a shop, it’s just common sense to remove anything that might be useful or congenial to a guy who worked in an auto shop. I’ve lost a fair number of MagLites, pocketknives, handtools, etc. when my car’s been in the shop – do yourself a favor and remove the temptation.
Rick and Gary
Thanks for the responses to my"advice", you were correct in all points. I overstated those things (too say the least).
While it is true that the parts sometimes are not your property, I still ask to see them. Just to help ensure they were actually replaced.
I do a lot of the non specialised stuff myself (oil changes, and stuff like that). I grew up on a farm, and learned from about age 8 up how to do more, but I don’t have a garage, lift or such now a days. What I do have is a good understanding of the various systems in a vehicle and how they work and interact.
One thing I will say is to “interact” with your mechanic. Ask questions. My guy will take me into the shop and show me the broken gizmo and explain the repairs. This too, hads a limit. A quick look and a good explination should be all you need or want. Unless you want to pay for a mechanic’s time while you “why and what” them to death, you should be happy with an explaination that sounds right and makes sense.
As to “I can not legally release the car with (lets say) such worn tires”. Phoning the police will not probably help. IF the police agree to come, they will probably treat your request seriously, and inspect the car, finding many issues that will mean “not safe to drive”. As mentioned earlier, telling the mechanic you will sign a waiver will suffice. Its kind of similar to discharging yourself from a hospital, you will have to sign something that is the equivelent of “against medical advice”.
Once again, Gary and Rick, thanks for “clarifying” my posts.
FML
I’ve been known to mark parts that I expect to be changed in a repair. I have always asked to see the parts and the shop I take my car too has no problems showing me the parts. They will often invite me into the shop to see what they’re doing. I’ve never been a dick about it and they seem more than willing to accomodate my desire to inspect the car.
My mother used the same shop and I always looked the work over along with the bill. They never tried to oversell parts. A good shop gets repeat business from word of mouth. A bad shop has to oversell because of word of mouth.