I was looking for some advice information on common car tune-up and maintenance scams. Not so much the “we’ll punch a hole in your engine block” stuff but “we should replace this dirty air filter” (when it’s perfectly fine) or the old tire valve stem replacement hogwash. Any tips?
In my experience, the best option is to find a mechanic that you can trust. Over the years, I’ve had two steady mechanics. I’ve gone through two or three con artists over the years, but I’ve only gone to them one time each. My mechanic is probably a little bit more expensive than average, but he’ll explain to me what the problem is and what my options are. I pretty much trust him implicitly, and let him fix what he thinks is appropriate. It helps to have a good relationship with your mechanic, kind of like your doctor.
I’m talking about the common stuff you can get at an oil change place.
One of the worst ones here was that at a tyre/exhaust place, they would fit a new exhaust and at the same time squirt some oil from a conveniently located can onto your shock absorbers, then invite you to look at them and explain that they are leaking and the car is dangerously unroadworthy and they can’t allow it to leave the workshop until the are replaced at a ‘discount’ price.
I have an acquaintance who was an auto-parts salesman who knew the manager of one of these places, sent his wife in with her car to have some minor work done - change brake pads - and the manager was going to get it sorted at a good price.
Unfortunately the manager wasn’t told when she arrived and they kept her waiting for almost an hour before telling her the car was dangerously unroadworthy and it would cost her £800 to fix.
She phoned her husband, who phoned the manager, who came down on his staff like an avenging angel. She left there 20 minutes later with the original work done, F.O.C and no other work required.
smiling bandit, while you can save money and time by going to one of those chain “Jiffy Lube type” places for oil changes and the like, I have found that it’s better to use those maintenance events as opportunities to assess the skills of and cultivate a relationship with your local independent repair shop.
By using them for minor service you can find out about their reliability and work ethic, plus, they see you as a regular customer and not a one time opportunity should you have to use them for a major repair. You’ll get better service and treatment from a mechanic that has been doing your oil changes for years when you bring it in describing that “ta-pocketa ta-pocketa” noise it makes on rainy days.
Yeah, don’t go to an oil change place.
It’s much easier and much more efficient to learn how to select an honorable repair shop than it is to learn enough technical stuff to protect yourself from a dishonorable one.
Exactly right Gary T.
I’ve used the same mechanic for years, and his father before him, since I packed in doing my own servicing and repairs.
He also does the cars of two of my kids - one is in there now for a failed driveshaft (the car, not the kid).
Although I tell him just to do whatever is needed, he always phones after he has diagnosed the problem and gives me details of what the costs will be to give me an opportunity to tell him to forget it.
His prices are always fair, his work is always exemplary. He isn’t particularly fast but that is fine by me - he doesn’t take forever though, a couple of days at most.
We all currently run French cars and he is a French car specialist - owns a few himself. I always feel my cars are in safe hands with him. If he spots something at the last minute he has been know to fix it and not charge for it as it wasn’t on the list.
This leads to the question of how do you select an honorable repair shop? Do you use the cartalk website where they list mechanic reviews, or just go by word of mouth, or what?
I already have a good relationship with an honorable repair shop, but they’re kind of far away. I don’t want to have to drive all that way every 5000 miles. Plus I still had to go to the dealership to get recall work done.
Last time I was at the dealership, they wanted to sell me on cleaning my fuel injectors for $150 because they noticed carbon build up on them. Since I have noticed no hesitation or roughness, and my mpg has not changed at all recently I told them no (I did let them adjust my rear brakes for $60 though). I am planning on asking my trustworthy mechanic about it next time I see him, anyway.
Whoops this was kind of a meandering post for GQ.
I used to go to a very fast, honest oil-change place hereabouts. They closed. The only other independant repair place that even takes Hondas is some distance away and doesn’t really do oil changes, since they’re backed up like nobody’s business. You can hardly even get into the parking lot because they’re so busy. So oil changers it is. I sometimes go to the “official” car dealer because the dealer is actually much faster than trying to get into the independant, although the indep does better work.
This is anecdotal, but I found my guys when they started handing free coupons around the neighborhood. It got me into their shop for oil changes, and even though I was paying like $5 an oil change, they never tried to upsell me on anything. By the time the coupons ran out, I’d already used them for some other repairs, and they were very professional about them each time. I’d ask them to check my brake pads, and twice now they’ve told me there’s no need to change them yet, even though I thought I was running them low. I was ready to pay for a replacement, which you’d think a mechanic would jump on, and I doubt they’re psychopathic enough to lie to me and cause me to wreck my car, so that told me they were trustworthy.
The only problem I have with them is that for major repairs, they use ‘premium’ parts and so the price is usually more than standard. Generally not a problem, as I feel comfortable leaving my car in their hands, but last month they quoted me $550 for what I later found was a $200-300 job. It set off a red flag at the time, so I didn’t get the repair, and now I’m wondering if it’s worth going back to them for it.
A posting I made 5 years ago:
Dealerships generally do good work. They have factory training, factory tools, factory information, and top quality parts in-house. On the downside, they tend to have high prices (though not always the highest), and they often have a manner that puts many people off. Certainly some are better than others, but if you feel comfortable with a particular dealer, I have no reason to advise against using them.
I don’t care for the chain operations. They often have entry-level help, and I believe they train their people to sell rather than to develop good mechanical judgment. While they typically advertise very attractive prices, probably less than 5% of customers who go in for, say, a 79.95 brake job leave having only spent that much. Often their prices for the upsold services are pretty high. There are some good individual stores out there, but in general the best quality and the best value is not found at the chains.
Independent shops run the gamut from large to small, excellent to lousy. The very best of all types of shops are the top-notch independents. The very worst are the scum independents. The good ones tend to offer more personalized service than the dealerships and more competent service than the chains. For many people, developing a relationship with a high-quality independent shop yields the best overall value and the least hassle in servicing their cars.
How to find a good shop? Use a multi-pronged approach. The first thing is to check their reputation. Customers are the most obvious source. Just be aware that some people may be delighted with a shop that’s scamming them some, and some may deride a good shop that they simply didn’t click with. Another avenue is to check industry sources. Ask at parts stores that deal with the shops. See if you can find a tool wagon-vendor (Snap-On, Mac, etc.) on his route. Check with a specialty shop (e.g. auto electric). These people have an insider’s perspective, and usually know which are the good shops and which are best avoided.
Look for mechanics’ certification. This is through an organization called ASE (Auto Service Excellence). They provide written tests which, while not perfect, pretty well identify those who know what they’re talking about. Don’t just look for the logo, but go inside and look at each individual’s certificate. There are eight areas of testing in general auto repair, but a person who passes just one test can wear the patches and be called certified. And a shop with just one certified mechanic can display the ASE logo. Ideally, all personnel at the shop will be certified Master Technicians (passed all eight tests).
Look for training and seminar certificates. To be proficient on modern cars requires a fair amount of ongoing learning. While intentional fraud makes great TV exposes, it is actually rather rare–most problems with auto repair are rooted in lack of competence, and unwillingness to own up to it. A high level of expertise is a good thing.
Look for membership in trade associations. Different ones are strong in different parts of the country, but three I’m aware of are ASA (Auto Service Association) and ASP (Auto Service Professionals) for general repair, and ATRA (Automatic Transmission Rebuilders Association) for transmission repair. Belonging to an association usually indicates an interest in the reputation of one’s field and the welfare of one’s customers.
Use your “people skills,” along with the shop’s reputation, to assess their honesty and integrity. Most of us have a feel for when people are being straight with us. If you’re young and still developing these skills, have a more experienced friend or relative go along and counsel.
Satisfy yourself that there is a good rapport between you and whomever you’re dealing with (this might be a manager rather than a mechanic–that’s OK). If you ask a question, you should get an answer that is useful to you. It may take a few tries to effectively communicate, but they (and you) should be trying to make it work.
Don’t focus on price. We all want to be good consumers, and it’s great to get a bargain. But most of the time, you get what you pay for. Good service is supported by top-flight help, comprehensive information resources, study and training, and special equipment. These things cost money, which has to be reflected in a shop’s prices. I wouldn’t necessarily make a point of going to the most expensive shop in town, but I’d be downright scared to go to the cheapest one.
If they mention Johnson rod adjustments or replacing, run far, far away. The “Johnson rod” scam (replacement or tuning of a nonexistent part that sounds real) predates Seinfeld by many years.
A big less-than-honest up-sell is “<blank> looks old and needs replacing” simply because sometimes it’s true sometimes it’s not. A lot of the parts in a car have fairly long expected lifetimes and should be replaced when they fail – others, like certain belts, when they are worn past a certain point. Always ask how long they would estimate you have until the part fails and what they think the result of it failing would be.
Besides selling unnecessary repairs, Iffy lube is well known for damaging peoples cars and then denying responsibility, or once the customer has purchased a upsell not doing the work. They still take the customer’s money. :rolleyes:
A few thoughts about this thread. For the last several months, I have been working at an independent shop helping out and writing service. It has been years and years since I have dealt with customers on a retail level. I had forgotten how much fun, and how frustrating this can be.
Anyway, if you are looking for a shop, read Gary T’s advice above.
A few things I would add. If you ask a question about your car, you should get an answer that you can understand. If you don’t understand, say so, and ask for another explanation. By the way, if you do ask a question, don’t ask 4 more before the person doing the explaining can finish the first sentence of the answer.
The time to shop for a shop is NOT when you car is dead and broken.
If you find an honest shop, for OG sake GO THERE. I don’t care if it is out of the way, go there. There is a couple of reasons for this. If you only go to the honest guy, you run a zero risk of getting screwed on the times you don’t go to the honest guy. Also this will help keep the honest guy in business, and helps drive the crooks and incompetent shops out of business.
Competence trumps convenience every time
Our shop regularly draws from customers that live more than 50 miles away. We had a tow in last week from about 75 miles away. Why are people coming from so far away? Simple, we fix cars, and we don’t screw people.
I’m convinced **Rick **and Gary T are actually Tom and Ray. 
Great advice guys. Although, you know, cars aren’t exactly that mysterious. I grew up doing routine stuff (oil, plugs, rotor, brakes) on my Dad’s cars, and now do the same on my own. Knowing at least a little about what the problem could be and being an informed consumer goes a long way here. Yes, there have been significant technological changes in cars over the decades, but the nuts and bolts of car repair have not changed appreciably over the years. (It helps if you have an electronics background too!!)
Two horror stories:
- Ex girlfriend of mine once mentioned her rather new-ish car was in the shop for a serpintine belt replacement (it had less than 10000 miles on it). I asked “Why!!??” and she told me that she had bought a special belt warrenty through the shop for just $350 (!!??), when they had put her winter tires on. She bragged that they had so far replced her belt twice.
I checked out the car when she got it back. The belt had not been replaced, only sprayed with a “Rubber renew” compound. (Makes it look new and shiney, takes less than a minute to do) Most modern serpintine belts are good for 70,000+ miles at least… She wouldn’t believe she had been ripped off.
- Elderly woman comes into store and asks for a tire gauge. I walk her over to them , asks how to use one, and she explains that she doesn’t want mechanic to rip her off on weight. “Huh?”… Turns out mechanic had been charging her for filling her tires by the pound… ( left front tire low by 4 lbs, refilled at $3/lb)… she showed me the bill.
sheesh!
FML
Some basics…
Get a Hayne’s maunual for your make model and year of car. Even if you don’t read it, lkeave it on the passenger seat of your car. It will be noticed, and mechanics will assume you can see/understyand what they are bidding on.
Remember you are just accepting a bid. It may cost you $75/100 to have your car towed to another shop. Phone around and ask local shops what they charge to fix the problem the “guy” is telling you about. The towing fee may be cheaper than the rip off
Always insist on the return of damaged parts. Tell the shop that you will show them to your brother/uncle/sister/nieghbour/etc who is a mechanic, when they get back from holiday. (they are your property).
Get mean, on pricing, on esitimates. What ever the first price is, tell them… what the fuck???"“NO Fucking way!!” Call a tow truck, or tell them… I will find someone cheaper… 30 seconds later or one “i gotta check with the manager sir/maam” the price will come down by 15-25%… ( I once saw a muffler replacement fall from $300 to $125 on this gambit)
If you find an honest mechanic, recommend him/her to your friends, keep them in business…
fml
Cheaper does not equal better. If the “cheaper” shop does inferior work, it will cost you a pile of money at the more expensive shop to get it straightened out. True life example. Customer comes in the other day. He had a rear main seal, and some transmission seals replaced at a “cheaper” shop. Reverse no longer worked on his car. He took it back to the cheaper shop and they told him he needed a new transmission, and it was not their fault as they did not work on the transmission. They quoted full pop retail for the removal of the transmission again for replacement. We put the car up in the air and find five out of the ten nuts and bolts that mount the front subframe missing! :eek: He brings in the bill and it says "No warranty on transmission as we did not work on the transmission. Cute since the parts list starts with “Transmission seal” OK, Sparky if you didn’t work on the transmission, just where did you put that seal?
Anyway customer choose to have us actually fix the car.* His bill was about $4,000 (including a bunch of other work that was needed). Oh, yeah there were overall 20 fasteners missing from the previous shop. He had spent $1100 dollars for the rear main seal replaced. The $1100 was probably a hundred or two less than we charge, but we do re-install all the fasteners we take out, we don’t destroy people’s transmissions, should there be a unrelated failure we sure as hell would cut the customer some serious slack on the price.
Not necessarily. If the part is sold exchange there is a core charge that has to be paid, You would have to pay the core charge.
If you are dealing with an honest shop this is a great way to get shown the door in one hell of a hurry. Look I didn’t design your car, build your car, or hold a gun to your head and made you but it. So don’t curse at me when you break the damn thing. Particularly if the problem is a result of you not maintaining the car. If you do curse at me, I will throw you out of the shop. I have enough customers that don’t curse, I don’t need to put up with assholes.
agreed.
ETA: *A complaint has been filed with the state department that governs auto repair against the other shop. The customer may see some $ back due to state action.
No we aren’t, the difference is we actually know something about cars. 
Tom and Ray don’t offer technical advice they offer entertainment. I don’t listen to them as every time I do, I find myself screaming No you idiot that isn’t how it works, or Cite! at my radio.
I have a bit of advice for free, even though it cost me quite a lot of money: a repair shop’s proximity to the motor vehicle office for your area may be an indicator of shady dealings. They likely get a lot of same-day, first-time customers come in who need them to “look it over and make it pass inspection,” and wouldn’t you know it, every single one of them needs a $200 part replaced, but the part is in stock and the labor is quick. They can probably turn it around in an hour at the outside!
The owner of the particular shop that got my money actually changed his story midway through the repairs. He said that something needed to be done about engine mounts, and I balked, so he then went in and talked to his mechanic, who discovered a new problem with an almost identical cost. :rolleyes:
At that point I was stuck - I had already taken a day off from work to go to the DMV, and the inspection schedules and deadlines were working against me. I needed a clean bill of health by 3:00pm, and there was no way I was going to get it anywhere but there. :mad: