My wife took her ar in for an oil change-and wound up with a $200 bill! (for a fuel system “flush”, and a cooling system “renewal”). Is this honest? The car is 4 years old, with the 6 year, 100K mike coolant. Plus, I have never heard of a fuel system “flush”!
I think this is pretty damn unethical. True, she agreed to this…but somehow, taking advantage of somebody isn’t exactly ethical! :smack:
I always get upsold on car services, every time, no matter where I go. Since I don’t know a whole hell of a lot about cars, I have to take their word for it. So I couldn’t even tell you whether it’s ethical or not–and neither could my husband, who knows even less than I do. Having to change your coolant every so often seems reasonable to me, but how often ‘‘reasonable’’ is, I couldn’t hazard a guess. I look forward to finding out from our mechanical dopers the way it should be when you go to change your oil. I’m due for one right now.
Jiffy Lube is notorious for this kind of shit, at least the ones around here. And now it looks like Valvoline is beginning to start this practice as well judging by the last time I came in for an oil change.
If I wasn’t so lazy, I would do it myself but since I am I’ll just grit my teeth and put up with the hard sell tactics.
Hrm. I had the fuel-system flush done recently, only because my car had over 100k miles on it and I’d never changed the fuel filter (and it was a pain in the ass to get to, so I couldn’t realistically do it myself). I’d be curious to see what our car geniuses (Rick should show up soon) have to say about these types of things.
Also last time I was at spee-dee oil change they talked me into changing the transmission fluid, but again I have way over 100k miles, not sure the last time I changed it, and it looked disgusting.
Look at your owner’s manual. There are pages in back where you can keep track of the various maintenance milestones. Keep track of the things, and stick to the suggested routines. Then it is pretty easy to say no to these shiesters. Keeping yourself educated can save you a lot of money over the life of your car.
That’s the reason they’re able to dupe so many people…what they suggest sounds reasonable. If they suspected that you’d think a blinker fluid replacement sounded reasonable, they’d offer that too.
If you want to know what your car needs done as a matter of routine maintenance, your best bet is to consult your owner’s manual. Somewhere in there will be a service/maintenance section which will detail what needs done at various intervals. The manuals for my cars, for example, have little sections for each of the first dozen or so factory service intervals. For example, my wife’s car’s oil change interval is 10,000 miles, with a break-in oil change at 5,000. In her book, it has entries in the maintenance guide for 5k, 10k, 20k, 30k, 40k, etc… Most of those just list an oil change, tire rotation, and a check of certain fluid levels and wear items. At the 60,000 mile interval, though, it says to change the spark plugs and a couple other additional things.
Checking how frequently your car’s manufacturer recommends certain things to be done will keep you from getting scammed. The only time you should be performing services not specifically called out in such a service guide is when something is not working properly.
And about the coolant…you’d be amazed how infrequently it really needs changed. Most late-model cars have an interval of at least 100,000…some cars actually have coolant that never needs changed, provided nothing goes wrong.
It’s not ethical. However, as an adult, your wife (and you) have to develop a basic understanding of the “care and feeding” of your car. Every car comes with a book that tells you exactly how to take care of the car, what to service, and when. There is no excuse for not knowing this.
It is really rather astounding the level of ignorance we tend to allow ourselves in vitally important aspects of life, like auto repair, home repair and finance. People have so little knowledge, they can be taken advantage of very easily, so unscrupulous service providers thrive.
Or, you know, you could just Google it or something. :dubious:
As I see it, I don’t care how much or how little you know — if the service provider (who, after all, may reasonably be expected to have the expertise you lack) deceives you about what you need, it is not only unethtical, but should be a crime.
It’s not something I really think about all that often, but you’re right, I absolutely could. It never really occurred to me, on a conscious level, until this moment, that I might be getting scammed. I always assumed that only shady mechanics would do that, not that it would be a common practice among every place I have ever taken my car to get serviced throughout history.
The place ma has her oil changed is one of those places that mark off everything as bad on the check list. I replaced both her wipers with high quality ones. The next weekend she has the oil changed and the wipers are apparently shot according to their expert opinion. They always mark off new parts as bad when she goes there. The oil change places around here are not to be trusted, beyond telling them just change the oil, my mechanic will do the other stuff.
A favorite for these pricks is to want to change your air filter and wiper blades at an exhorbitant mark-up. Any knucklehead (including me) can do either in about five minutes at a fraction of the cost. I put a K&N air filter in my car, so it never needs changing. Also, my vehicle has a sealed chassis, so it never needs lubing. They positively pout when I tell them “just change the oil and oil filter - nothing else.”
Oh man, I wish it were just some isolated unscrupulous companies doing this shit, but unfortunately it’s endemic to the industry and it feeds on the ignorance of the average car owner. It doesn’t just stop at Lube & Screw joints either–my daughter has a '99 Subaru Forester that has just about 120K miles on it that she purchased at 98K. I had my (extremely good and punctiliously honest) mechanic vet it before purchase and he gave it a clean bill of health. I recommended to my daughter and son in law that they ONLY take it to my mechanic for servicing or for anything gone wrong but he’s in an inconvenient area for them so they took it down the street to another shop–BAD idea! The shop came up with a fantastical laundry list of “things which were immediately in need of fixing due to safety issues” with a price tag of $1600.00 that luckily they called me first before authorizing. I listened to the list and had a one word rebuttal–BULLSHIT! I told them that it was pretty much impossible for the car to have developed that batch of problems in less than 20K miles from when they bought it and also that they would have been noticing a LOT of change in the way it drove if those things were really wrong. To set their fears aside they took it to my mechanic, who went down the entire list and SHOWED them on the car what it would look like if those things were really true and let them know that the only real problem was a torn CV boot, which he fixed with a very reliable stopgap measure that I’ve had done on my car and usually lasts for about 40-50K miles before anything else needs to be addressed. Then he suggested they file a complaint with the Attorney General and offered to testify against the other shop, which they and he did.
Oh, cost for the CV boot fix? 140.00 including parts and labor. No charge for the two hours he spent going over the car and showing my son in law what wasn’t wrong. My family has figured out it’s more convenient to travel a little farther to go to the honest mechanic!
It’s about a million times harder to find a competent and honest mechanic than it is to find a good doctor, and it really pays to learn more about how cars work unless you really like paying money for nothing to the crooks. Take a class at a local community college or something–it’ll pay for itself in no time because just SOUNDING knowledgeable will keep a lot of the borderline crooks from messing with you, just in case you actually DO know he’s bullshitting and are ready to file complaints…
This bit reminds me of the first time Jayjay took our car in for inspection here. The chain place (three guys with huge bobble heads) wanted over $900.00 for for “absolutely necessary” repairs in order for the car to pass inspection. Instead, we took it to a local mechanic, recommended by a buddy of ours. The cost? $60.00, including inspection costs.
I’ll never go to a chain place for car repairs ever again.
I’m here. 
Ralph in my personal opinion your wife would stand a lesser chance of getting fucked if she went to a biker bar and announced in a loud voice that she wanted a six pack of beer to wash some roofies down with.
I hate Iffy lube with the heat of a 1000 suns. They are as a group dishonest and incompetent. They over sell services (your coolant change for example) As far as injector purges (flushes) go, they are great for curing some running problems. However if no problem exists, I don’t see the need for them as a preventive maintenance item.
Furthermore the State of California has stared a campaign against the entire 3000 mile lube it or lose it meme.
I had dinner last night with a guy that could be considered a mover and a shaker in the automotive aftermarket. He has some very interesting ideas about where car repairs are going over the next few years.
His attitude toward Iffy Lube is that if the competent independent shops and new car dealers put their mind to it and shined the light of truth on how these guys operate, that Jiffy Lube would be out of business in a couple of years.
Jiffy Lube isn’t that cheap compared to many new car dealers and competent independent shops. Many new car dealers offer a 30 minute oil change guarantee and a price that is within a few dollars of what JL gets. For example at my last dealership, our everyday oil change “special” was $0.50 more expensive than the quick lube down the street. For that 50 cents you got a factory master technician looking at your car (me), a factory filter and quality oil. Or you could save 50 cents get a kid that had not been alive as long as I had been working in the industry, who started there last week, a no name inferior filter, and who knows what for oil. Call me conceited but I think that extra 50 cents was the bargain of the week.
I would strongly urge you to find a competent independent shop or new car dealer service department and build a relationship with them for fixing your car. A good shop will tell you not only items that need service now, but what you are looking at in the future. Things like Ralph, you don’t need brakes right now, but probably at the next service. This will allow you to budget for these expenditures.
If you need tips on how to find a good shop, ask. Or I think Gary T did an entire thread on it a long time ago. Maybe he will stop by with a link.
I second the read your owner’s manual suggestion. In the industry we used to say that the customer paid $40,000 dollars for that book and we threw in a free car. They never bother to open the book, just drive the car. :rolleyes: 
There is usually a detailed listing of what is needed to be replaced when. The guy that built your car knows way more about what it needs than the kid with pimples at Iffy Lube. One note: Pay attention to the severe duty recommendations in the manual if you live in an urban area and do lots of stop and go, or short hop driving.
olivesmarch4th Feel free to ask questions here on the dope about your car. You can also send me an e mail or IM with a specific question. You won’t be the first person to do this, and I bet you won’t be the last. I can’t speak for Gary T, but I would guess that he would do the same. If you think you are being oversold, say no. Most of the time you can put off that up sell for a day or so and have no damage to your car. Then come back here and start a thread, or ask me a question.
:dubious: :smack: 
I. don’t. Get. It.
Ma goes to to a place and winds up with proof positive that they are trying to defraud her, and she goes back again?
For the love of OG, why? By the use of the word always, I am guessing she has gone back more than once.
WTF?
One or two bad shops does not an endemic make. A competent technician or shop does not need to do these things, as they can make a great living fixing cars that are truly broken, they don’t need to fuck their customers.
ETA: I wish I had a dollar for every time I have sat down and explained to a customer exactly what is wrong with their car, and why and how I was going to do a repair. I could probably take a fairly nice vacation. I have been trying to fight the ignorance of car owners since 1968. It really is taking longer than I thought. 
I agree they don’t NEED to, but unfortunately I’ve found, as a woman, that even usually reliable shops will quite often give in to the greed thing when what looks like an easy mark comes in the door. If I had a nickel for every time I’ve had to call the manager over to explain that their sales or floor guy just gave me a big line of crap in order to sell me unnecessary services or repairs I’d have a big pile of nickels! I’ve also had some interesting experiences coming into a shop with the SO, who does not drive and is not well acquainted with how cars work–the shop guys will automatically address him even though I’m the one who drove in and who’s requesting services. I’ve also brought the same car into a shop on different days, with me driving it on one day but acting a bit clueless and an equally car savvy but vocally so male friend driving it on another. Care to take a guess who got the lower initial estimate? We’ve also reversed the cluelessness roles and had similar results, so it’s not just automatic sexism but perception of an easy mark that puts the temptation out there.
Yes, we do this intentionally to pinpoint good shops and bad ones and we’re vocal as hell about our findings. I find that any good mechanic will not hesitate to SHOW an owner EXACTLY what the issue is and give options for amelioration as well as a timeline for repair–the bad ones will insist that the owner take their word on it and will be unusually insistent that the repair is immediately necessary due to safety issues. They just don’t want the owner getting a second opinion!
SmartAleq, can you take an extended stay in Northern California, please? I’ll put you up!
I heard they are bringing back the old scam (about using 100% nitrogen, instead of air (80% N2)) to fill your tires. Supposedly, it makes the tires last longer!
Pretty good deal, for an extra $20/tire!
There are plenty of good mechanics out there and when you find one, cling on for life. I found one about 4 years ago and I can tell he isn’t full of shit.
He is almost too honest sometimes and says things like “gravity, your cv joint boot is marginal but should be ok for another year, and your fuel filter is the original unit, but as long as it works, you should be fine.”
He never tries to sell me things that I don’t need.
He makes money because I trust him and all of my car repairs and tire changes, and whatever I need car related goes to him. You can make money without being dishonest.