computer: build or buy?

Think about a local mom & pop computer shop. If they’ve been around for a while they are doing it right. You might pay a little bit more but just a little; they have to be competitive on price or they can’t stay in business.

The place I’ve used for my last couple computers charged $25 for assembly … that saved me a lot time compared to building it myself … and the parts were priced very close to what I could buy them for online. Also, they do a 24 hour burn-in, not just a switch it on to see if it starts up (if the guy who’s supposed to do it isn’t on a coffee break at the time.)

Keep in mind that the Dell or whatever big-name brand only appears to be about the same superficially; there is a meaningful difference between the $15 no-name motherboard and the Gigabyte, or between the no-name RAM and the Kingston.

Many Dell systems these days use motherboards from Foxconn, who also supply [different] product to Apple, Cisco, etc. Again, if you want an enthusiast system you won’t want a Dell one, because the CPU, memory, etc. timings are locked at the conservative Intel recommended values. You could cross-flash the board back to the generic Foxconn / whatever model, but why bother when you can get an enthusiast board in the first place and avoid the hassle? Older Dell systems often used Intel boards, and occasionally complete chassis. The XPS D/R/T systems used various Intel SE440BX boards. The PowerEdge 350 was an Intel ISPxxxx server - I forget which exact model.

Regarding memory, the big-name system brands will be using some brand (Hynix, Elpida, etc.) of chips on a module base from that same brand, with the overall part number also carrying that brand. That part number will probably be impossible to obtain elsewhere, unless you’re looking to purchase 10’s of thousands of modules. Any small quantities you find will likely be pulls or spares from Dell or whoever spec’d them. Due to the volatility of memory pricing, memory purchased later (from the same system manufacturer) or supplied as a warranty part, will likely be a different brand.

Module fabricators like Kingston, Smart Modular, etc. build a module base board and install different brands of chips on it, and give it an overall Kingston model number and an internal Kingston part number. Depending on the target for that particular module (specialty OEM, generic spec ValueRAM, etc.) different modules with the same Kingston model number may or may not always have the same brand of chips mounted. Only boards with the same internal Kingston part number will always have the exact same chips on them.

There are benefits and tradeoffs with either approach. During the early years of the PC memory market (up to around the 72-pin DIMM era) there were a lot of fly-by-night outfits that stuck whatever chips they purchased as floor sweepings on a base board (where they probably copied the design from a well-known board), made a half-hearted attempt to test them (if you were lucky) and sold them at inflated prices. This was also the period where those vendors built boards with so-called “logic parity”, because it was cheaper to fake the parity data than to include actual memory chips for parity. These days, the memory market overall has much higher quality. And there is no longer the perception that modules with chips from a RAM manufacturer placed on a base board from an integrator (such as Kingston) are of lower quality - in fact, many people feel that brands like Kingston are superior to modules assembled by a chip manufacturer.

If you purchase a “premium” motherboard from a manufacturer like Supermicro, you’ll find that their “tested memory list” for the board (particularly newer boards) contains mostly (or entirely) chip maker-built modules which aren’t available in the retail channel. So building a system with that motherboard will probably entail using a module that isn’t on their tested list, but which will probably work fine nonetheless.

I’m familar with Dell’s memory because I purchase a fairly large number of systems from them. I have direct experience with Kingston and Smart Modular as I have used both of them to build custom modules for my systems.

The simple fact is, a lot of good kit attached to a ropey motherboard will not make for a good system.
You can’t really compare these two items without knowing what board is in the HP.
But I can pretty much guarantee it won’t be as good as the custom built system.

But both of them appear to be way beyond your needs anyway. Get a cheaper machine and a better quality monitor and keyboard:-)

I tend to over buy/ build my systems since I have been though too many you need X more computer than you own to run this program.
I have found that overbuying allows me to keep the unit longer before change force me to the next upgrade.

Ok, I agree with that , but here’s a funny thing - I see lots of kit that appear to run slow due to lack of RAM. But when I build a machine with a high quality motherboard and processor, then I find memory isn’t such an issue. I recenly ripped out half of my own 2 Gbs of Ram (admittedly running XP) and didn’t notice any difference.

Ebay can also yield some pretty nice deals on some good machines if you’re inclined to shop with them.

When i was looking for a new computer recently, i found that a lot of the desktops offered on eBay come without an operating system, so if you want Windows you have to add that to your budget.

I actually ended up buying my “new” computer on Craigslist. If you’re willing to wait for the right deal, willing to check out the merchandise before buying, and have some confidence that you can spot a lemon, then Craigslist can actually be pretty good. You just need to use your good sense about whether the seller seems on the level.

I bought a desktop from a guy who was moving back to China. When i got to his place, and saw all his stuff being packed into boxes, it was pretty clear he was telling the truth about leaving. His Lotus Elise, also offered for sale on eBay, was in the driveway. I figured that a guy selling a $30,000+ sports car probably wasn’t going to scam me on a $500 computer.

Anyway, he let me check out the computer while it was on, and he also let me turn it off and open it up to look inside. Everything seemed good, so i bought it, and i think it was a pretty good deal.

It was a 3-month-old HP desktop:

Intel Core 2 Quad 8300
6GB RAM
500GB HDD
NVidia GeForce 9500 GS 512MB
Windows 7 Home Premium

Dell 23" widescreen monitor

$500

I added a 1TB HDD for more storage space. So far, it’s been everything i expected. the only problem has been the video card, which died a couple of months after i bought it, but i can’t really blame the seller for that. I replaced it with a better card.

I hadn’t thought about Craigslist for a decent computer. Last few times I looked there (a couple of years back) the ads were full of people that wanted $500 for a 386 machine :rolleyes:

Yeah, you definitely have to sift out the delusional postings. Some people are in complete denial about how quickly technology moves, and how much old stuff has depreciated. I saw someone on our local Craigslist a few weeks ago asking $50 for a 15" CRT monitor. These days, you almost need to pay someone to take a consumer-grade CRT off your hands; no-one is going to pay 50 bucks for one.

Edit:

Here is an entry that’s only about 10 minutes from where i live.

Obviously, any prospective purchaser should check it pretty closely, but if the product is as described, then it’s a pretty good deal, if you can live with the limitations of a mini-tower.

No argument with this. I’ve looked at our infant mortality returns, and sometimes I wondered if certain systems ever got turned on. One of the biggest fail modes was no manual in the box, by the way.

I’m in a similar boat. I built my last machine about six years ago and it finally gave up the ghost after many years of faithful service(with only two minor upgrades during that time, an additional hard disk and new video card). I built it out of tech which was about six months behind bleeding edge, so the price had dropped. I’ve dipped my toe back into the water after putting it off for a long time. I’ve wish listed a machine at newegg and I’m mulling it over. It’s more than I wanted to pay, but it has some items I wanted. First, it has a blu-ray burner. Since we got a HD camcorder which records AVCHD, this is a priority. This rig also has multiple PCI-E X16 video card slots(and two expansion slots). While most of what I do with the computer won’t require much Graphics Processing Unit(GPU) power, it’s still nice to have the option to scale my GPUs, especially after today’s hot cards come down in price.

1 ASUS P7P55 LX LGA 1156 Intel P55 ATX Intel Motherboard

2 XFX HD-477A-YDFC Radeon HD 4770 512MB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card

1 CORSAIR CMPSU-1000HX 1000W ATX12V 2.2 / EPS12V 2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Modular Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 Power Supply

1 Intel Core i7-860 Lynnfield 2.8GHz LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80605I7860

1 Crucial Ballistix Tracer 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) Desktop Memory w/ Blue LEDs Model BL3KIT25664TB1337

2 Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5

1 LG Black 10X Blu-ray Burner - Bulk SATA Model WH10LS30 LightScribe Support

Subtotal: $1,425.91

I’m not sure about the CPU just yet, and I may go with one video card instead of two. The CPU doesn’t work that well with 16X video cards in crossfire because it has only one PCIe controller into the CPU, so two cards capable of 16x get downgraded to 8x each. I’ll almost certainly go 64 bit. 64 bit would lock me into Windows 7/a server os(cause I’m not touching Vista), which I don’t really want because it’s not quite mature enough IMHO, or (in the case of a server os) too frakking expensive with iffy support for most consumer apps. I’m also very wary of going two channel versus three channel for the memory. Ensuring the processor doesn’t limit my video card upgrade path and two or three channel memory are my quandries right now.

In general though I tend to build a PC along the following lines.

Priority 1 - High bus speeds
Priority 2 - Video card upgrade potential
Priority 3 - Hard disk upgrade potential
Priority 4 - Manufacturer(I’ve had great experiences with Intel)/OS concerns

So what I’ll probably end up doing is scrapping the build above and going back to looking at three channel memory boards and start there.

Enjoy,
Steven

Why would you offer what they are asking for on Craiglists? Half of list would be my rule of thumb for a fairly new piece of equipment and I test it before money changes hands. That goes down considerably if it’s more than a year old.

My rule for Craigslist is that if the asking price is obviously a DRI* I ignore the listing. If a person is so deluded that they think a 386 is worth $500, there is no way they will come down to reality (give me $10 to haul it away) If the listing has a price that reflects reality, I will talk to them and perhaps haggle.
the last few times I cruised Craigslist the you gotta be out of your mind listings outnumbered the sane ones by about 10:1

*DRI Drug Related Incident As in that guy had to be high when he posted that price.

When I replaced my 19 inch CRTs with LCD screens, I literally couldn’t give the CRTs away to any of my friends. When the company I used to work for replaced their 17" CRTs with LCDs, they let any employee that wanted one haul it off. The surplus places wouldn’t even come and pick them up.

I have built all my own machines and those for friends and family for the past ten years.
They don’t save any money but do get a well specced machine at a sensible price that will last them and be reliable/upgradable for years.

I currently run one of my own and a Toshiba laptopop with Vista on it.

According to the numbers the laptop should be several steps faster than the five year old self build but the opposite is true. The old dog has never had a problem bar a self destructing IBM hard drive, the only HD fail I have had and the only non-Seagate drive!

I often contemplate a new one but the old one does all I want and runs so well I can’t see the point.

A good case with properly thought out (silent) cooling.
A hight quality (silent) power supply with 50% more capability than needed.
A good motherboard, they are far from all being equal. As basic as possible - no onboard video!
A capable chip with resources greater than you need - you will need them soon enough.
Decent memory modules. Kingston, Crucial or Dane-Elec have all been fine for me, yet to experience a failure with them.