computer/video game corner

This here cafe has a sizable noisy corner filled with talk of television, so by gum, a smaller corner can fit in for a more niche pursuit.

When most people think of video games, they tend to think of noise and bright flashes; style with no substance whatsoever. And for a great many games (many of them very entertaining) I’d definitely agree. However, there are some amidst all the explosions and such that are, dagnabbit, literature and art in their own right.

There’s quite a few to be found in the Interactive Fiction genre–that’s what used to be called text adventures, once upon a time when they actually sold commercially, and sold pretty well. Some (by no means not all) standouts in my opinion:

Infocom’s “A Mind Forever Voyaging”–most IF of the time was heavily puzzle-based. How do you avoid the groo? There’s a tight passageway here that you can only squeeze through if you drop all but 3 items–what can you just not afford to put down? That kind of thing. AMFV had a grand total of one puzzle, where timing was important, in the endgame. Otherwise–it was focused on atmosphere, description, and experience. The player’s alter ego was “Perry”, an AI who has only recently learned that it is, in fact, not a real person–Perry had spent all his time previously in an interior simulation of a human life, from day one. In the game, the player guides Perry through further simulations of a city, starting at the near-future of the game’s near-future present, and jumping forward a decade at a time and bearing witness to its accelerating downward spiral.

Although it doesn’t sell anymore, there’s been something of a resurgence in modern-day IF. I’m a big fan of Adam Cadre’s shorter IF titles “Photopia” and “Shrapnel.” Both are nearly or totally puzzle-less experiences, and I don’t hesitate to call them art. Other notables, Ian Finley’s “Babel” and Michael J. Roberts’ “Kaged” (links aren’t handy off the top–or bottom or middle–of my bookmarks, sorry).

Strong narratives aren’t limited to IF–though it certainly shows up there more often, due to the lack of anything flashy whatsoever to try. “Planescape: Torment” has one of the strongest and best stories I’ve ever seen in any game, f’r’instance, the ending of which made me teary-eyed. Both “System Shock” games had brilliant atmospheric moments and stretches; playing the first gave me the first time I can recall being enraged at a game villain for purely narrative reasons, and when that same villain makes her reappearance in the sequel, it was one of the creepiest moments ever had in front of a monitor (real shame about how the game ended though).

What do you think, sirs?

Planescape: Torment is one of my favorite games. I still get upset with “myself” for the way my previous incarnations treated Morte!

One recent game, Max Payne, has one of the best storylines I’ve ever seen. The game is primarily a third-person shooter with fairly linear plot, but the cutscenes are done in a graphic-novel style, which is a really neat idea. The thing that impressed me the most was that there are several dream sequences that are integral to the plot – and you actually play your way THROUGH those dream sequences. (The sequences are so creepy that they actually freaked me out a couple of times!)

In fact, there are a couple of first-person shooters out there with actual plots and storylines. Half-Life was the first – I remember playing through it the first time and actually CHEERING for the hero! Deus Ex was another game with excellent plotting – not so much on problem solving, but the script crafting was incredible. Those games impressed the crap out of me.

But I still have a soft spot in my heart for Infocom… I spent so many hours trying to avoid grues and get babel fishes in my ear. :slight_smile:

A Mind Forever Voyaging is probably the only computer game that’s made me cry. (Well, after installation…plenty of games have made me cry during installation). It’s remarkably well written and emotional. I’ve also liked Planescape: Torment, because, for one reason, it’s the only game I can think of where you frequently get into conversations with NPCs about philosophy. Two other games I liked, just because they were so well written, were both interactive fiction, and were both written for the annual contest, were Shades of Gray, which is a series of related scenes exploring various aspects of ethics and morality, and culminating in a final scene, where you’re faced to make a moral choice, and Muse:An Autumn Romance, where you play a 60 year old Victorian English minister on vacation in France where you meet a beautiful young woman.

uh…

how DID we treat Morte? my system got screwed up and i had to reinstall and start all over just after i read the plaque in “the Nameless One’s Tomb” that restated what was on my back, but finished with “Don’t trust the skull”.
who was morte? what was morte? what did we do to him?

if you think it will ruin the game too much for me, than i will wait. but i really am not looking forward to another 15 hours of play doing what i already did, again…

Ah, but is IF really a game? IMO, it’s a lot closer to book than game…you yourself imply that it’s often better when the gamey elements are removed. It may not always be as entirely linear as a book, but frequently you’re just there to see the sights and soak up the story…it’s more a style of writing than a game.

And the game that Deus Ex’s graphics came from, Unreal. It didn’t have the sheer amount of “stuff” or AI that Deus Ex had, but it had a wonderfully vibrant world to explore. The “story” was extremely interesting, even though you (the hero) actually participated in a small piece of it.

The story and atmosphere for Mechwarrior 3 was also very well done… tense and action-packed. I loved it.

I never played Unreal, SPOOFE - I played UT, but not the original. Looks like I may have to go back and try it.

IIRC, they’re working on Unreal 2 right now.

(And speaking of plotting, Pool of Radiance II is coming out later this month… if that follows in the footsteps of Baldur’s Gate 1 and 2, that should be excellent! Those games are other examples of great non-linear plotting and fun characters (right, Boo?).

Clive Barkers Undying is insanely scary, and wonderfully done plotwise. I loved System Shock 1 + 2, and I’ve played every Final Fantasy since the original on the NES. Any game which has a decent plot can be a great game to me, because it seems like gameplay has become very standardized recently.

I’ve been a fan of IF for the past five years.

Adam Cadre’s work has been alternately impressive and disappointing for me. “Photopia” was a great success - it did very well in the XYZZYs and won the IF competition that year - but my enjoyment of those has been spoiled by personal interactions with Adam that haven’t gone all that well. It’s made it impossible for me to appreciate the skill and art of the games, since the thought is always in my mind “Yeah, but he’s a prick.”

Emily Short’s “Galatea” was a better piece of IF-art in my opinion, and a phenomenal proof-of-concept for NPC AI in future IF works. Her “Metamorphoses” was good, but not great.

Only another month or so until the 2001 Comp entries are ready for judging . . .

Totoro, did you ever try American McGee’s Alice? Basically Alice in Wonderland done by Quentin Tarantino. Very spooky, very surreal… and one of the neatest ideas in gaming I’ve seen in a long time. Wonderful voice acting, fun plot… (Also, just one of the most visually beautiful games I think I’ve ever played.)

If you’re looking for just plain scary, the original Aliens vs. Predator did such a great job of recreating the feel of the Aliens movie that I literally couldn’t play it as a marine. Between the sound of the motion tracker and the aliens “coming out of the damn walls, man!”, it made me just too damn jumpy to play. :slight_smile:

And thanks for the Adam Cadre recommendation - after checking out his link, I’m going to have to try a couple of them. They look fascinating!

A build of “Pool of Radiance II” was playing at one of the booths at GenCon last month. Story and overall game, who knows–but my impression from mucking about in it briefly was essentially that the interface was just a mess.

It’s a spectrum, I think. “Photopia” is essentially a short story with no gamey elements, and is on the extreme end. “A Mind Forever Voyaging” doesn’t really lack gamey elements, simply the most common type of them from other IF. I’m thinking of those elements essentially as things the player must figure out and/or execute successfully to advance the plot, and those are certainly present in AMFV, just not in a puzzle form. Each stage of the game is only advanced by recording certain events and interactions in the gameworld, and if you don’t do that you’ll be stuck for a very long while.

Now, those aren’t as challenging an element as some logic puzzles, etc., but they’re still there. I liken it–bear with me here–to something like the gamey elements in “Max Payne”. My opinion of the quality of the plot and writing of that aside (let’s just say I have some disagreement with Krunk on the issue), the gamey elements in the title are really pretty simplistic (but undeniably fun). The levels are all very linear in progression, and killing opponents comes down to pretty much the same tactics each time. Slow-mo shootdodging, the rare use of general slow-motion, bang-bang they fall over; quickload when things don’t work out and repeat. No puzzles to note, and only two things vaguely akin to a maze, and these are the only elements the player needs to execute to advance the plot (such as it is). It’s more adrenarific than the exploration and scene-recording in AMFV, but not any more complex.

I’m pretty new to IF enjoyment, within the past year or so. From what I’ve played so far, I rather like that the competitions are spurring shorter, more focused pieces; truth be told, I’m simply not all that good at the more typical puzzle-fests of Infocom style big games–although I loved “Ad Verbum”, words I can handle. Handle meaning, “tearing chunks of hair out”, but I appreciate any game that can make me suddenly sit up in bed ten minutes into falling asleep and exclaim “navigate not north!”

Drastic, I don’t think you and I would disagree that much. The gameplay in Max Payne was pretty repetitive – there weren’t any real puzzles to speak of and the gameplay couldn’t have gotten more linear if it tried.

I do have to say I enjoyed the way the plot was put together. Lots of twists and turns (even though they really happened ‘off-screen’), and I really enjoyed the dream sequences. Thought they really added something to the game.

But for chrissakes, could the prose have been any MORE purple? It was as if they were trying to parody old Mike Hammer dialogue. “The trio tripped down the stairs, the blood of their victims rust upon their lips…” Pffagh. But at least it was an effort towards storytelling, even though it fell a bit short. It just made me giggle more than anything else.

<hijack> Was the interface of POR II THAT bad? I couldn’t get near it at GenCon – the booth was mobbed when I was there. Is the interface any messier than BG or BG2? </hijack>

Well, it looks like you’re right, we don’t disagree too terribly. The plot itself of Max Payne was fine, but dear god, the writing. There were sections that I found myself cringing from how bad it was. And the dream sequences were neat ideas in concept, but I still maintain that whoever thought “running along extremely narrow floating blood veins”, especially with a control scheme that wasn’t about fine control, should be beaten severely until blood is like rust on his lips as the steam grates steam like all the fires of hell were burning beneath the hellish streets of this pandemonium hellcries of this hellish city. Ahem. :slight_smile:

Hijack-wise, it was my short impression that, yep it was messier than the BG games. A lot of clicking, I remember spellcasting as a poorly thought-out drilling down (and down, and then down some more) into the characters, that sort of thing. That was the impression of only about ten minutes only, though, and for all I know I could have missed shortcuts and whatnot. But after seeing the “Neverwinter Nights” demo, I was profoundly underwhelmed.

To keep hijacking along interface issues, “Master of Orion III” looks to be very promising there–the design philosophy is that every single game screen, and there’s a lot, is only two mouse-clicks away from any point.

sigh Remind me that I’m just in chapter 2 of Baldur’s Gate 2, why dontcha… I think it’s a tribute to the writers/designers that I find myself playing every single quest that I stumble across. Argh!

It was supposed to be like that - the old cliches were part of the charm. Geez, people just don’t get irony anymore.

I loved the writing, but I wasn’t fussy about the plot, to be honest. Aside from the revenge motive, everything else was disjointed and felt tacked on. Why was Jack Lupino into devil worship - what was the point in that, and why was it dropped? Was there really any good reason for the diversion into the ship, aside from giving you a chance to feel like you were in The Usual Suspects? And the chance to REALLY make it interesting - to make Max Payne self-aware by making him realize he was in a video game - was flirted with, and then dropped. And what happened to Mona Sax, anyway? Guess we’ll find out in the sequel.

Yeah, I was disappointed by the ending myself… they bring up Woden, flirt with him briefly as some sort of deus ex machina, then abruptly drop him at the end. Same with Mona. I don’t mind being set up for sequels, just not that clumsily.

And I know the writing was supposed to be tongue-in-cheek – but even so, it was laid on a little too thick. And was it just me, or was the model they used for Max just not surly enough to be a pissed-off New York cop? (I seem to remember reading that that’s actually one of the game’s developers.)

(And I REALLY liked the bit about finding out he’s in a graphic novel and a video game – I laughed out loud when I first saw that. Wonder if they’ll do any more with THAT in a sequel.)

Ah, but I maintain there is a difference between “irony” and “suck”. A higher quality of writing would have made the difference there (as well as tying the whole jumble a bit more cohesively), as would have making Max out to have brain one–as it was, it’s simply not believable that he had the self-awareness to realize just how trite the nonsense he was uttering was. The part that really cemented the character’s intelligence for me was the first game level, in the subway station, where you walk through a door, see a wall with several dozen bullet holes in it, with a huge spray of blood and thick blood trail leading to another door.

Max does nothing.

Walk him along that trail into the next room, and there’s the body. Only THEN does Max draw his gun and think that, hey, something was kinda suspicious here.

Sorry to be so late on explaining this, but I don’t have SDMB access from work sniffle so I must post from home.

Regarding Planescape: Torment and your treatment of Morte –

spoilers warning

I’m not sure how far you made it into the adventure, but it seems like you got to the Nameless One’s tomb, where you read the various inscriptions on the wall. This lead to your knowledge that Morte lied to you about the last lines you had tatooed on your back.

Why did he lie to you?

In one incarnation, you thought that Morte was your own skull - you chased him through Sigil attempting to crush him and absorb him into your own cursed being somehow. He was only saved because the Nameless One ran underneath the wheels of a wagon and was crushed to death before he could get his hands on Morte.

Spoiler - Morte doesn’t remember anything about his mortal life - but he also feels incredibly guilty, and that’s why he stays with you; he feels responsible for one of your deaths, somehow. One of your first incarnations was betrayed by Morte while he was still living, and you rescued him from the Pillar of Skulls. He didn’t realize that he wouldn’t retain all the memories/experiences of the Pillar, however, and the Nameless One beat him to a whimpering shell of his familiar sarcastic form.

One of the things I love about Planescape is the interaction between different party members, and the interaction you can have with them. Morte and Grace have great lines together, as do Annah and the Nameless one (and Morte)… and depending on the NPC’s you choose, there’s a different story every time.

I can’t recommend Planescape: Torment enough to the serious RP junkies. I’ve played through the story several times, and the alignment and class selection of the character and the various NPC interactions really does make it a different and fantastic game every time.

And feel free to mail me if I’m vague… =)

yer not vague: i was just impatient. i got things cleared up, and i’ve played a whole bunch. just recently i got all the way to the lower/clerk’s wards, and i need to find Morte again. i really don’t want any more detail- i should find it out on my own.

i would like a statistics question answered, though…

what are the stats of “Missle Of Patience”? it’s unlisted, but the few times i’ve tried it it has blasted away with damage significantly higher than “Magic Missle” or “Chromatic Orb”. I would like to know exactly what it does, if you know. i havn’t found the answer in my web trawls…