Seriously? :dubious:
But as long as his name came up I would imagine any statue of Edward VIII might cause a little controversy.
Of course you conveniently ignore Oliver Cromwell’s attempt to start his own dynasty but nominating his son, Richard as successor.
Yo also ignore the fact that Parliament invited the King back and it proclaimed that King Charles II had been the lawful monarch ever since the [illegal] execution of Charles I. Effectively they decided that the previous 20 years had never happened.
There are many republicans in the UK but they are a small minority. Most people can see that the (more or less) random succession of a Royal Family is a much better alternative than some elected figurehead president. President Blair anyone?
Of - to call Cromwell’s treatment of the Irish “a little harsh” is a considerable understatement.
There’s a small number of post boxes out there with an ER VIII imprint on them. That’s about as much of an impact as he made.
I was referring to his alleged pro Nazi sympathies. Does the Sir Arthur Harris statue generate any controversy?
There’s a small number of post boxes out there with an ER VIII imprint on them. That’s about as much of an impact as he made. Right?
Let’s not forget his treatment of the Scots as well … on a par with Eisenhower’s treatment of the Germans in the Rhineland concentration camps three centuries later.
That reminds me: IIRC Marat’s monument was his ashes inside a Foucault pendulum at the Pantheon. An interesting monument, but …Marat.
The comparison here between UK and CSA has me inspired to put orange traffic cones on the heads of all the Jubilation T Cornpone statues down here, like the Brits do to the the Duke of Wellington. I just wish I had the nerve to follow through.
That’s puting it mildly.
(I hate to pull the “I have Irish ancestry” card, but I confess if I ever went to Ireland or Britain, I might have an urge to spit on any statue of that fucker. Because reasons.)
Considering that this happened at roughly the same time as Thirty Years' War - Wikipedia which was multitudes more destructive (8 million killed), it tends to disprove the links to Hitler. It was horrible as wars could be. But Cromwell was no Hitler. There would otherwise be no more Irish.
To be fair, Cromwell is also remembered fondly by Jews (at least by those you are aware of the connection) - not only did he lift the century-old ban on them settling in Britain, he actively worked to rebuild the Jewish community in London. A lot of it was for business and political reasons, true, but he also seemed genuinely sympathetic to their cause.
The exhibition at Culloden was heavily biased to the Jacobite side when I visited last year. Without careful inspection you’d never have known that the battle was mainly between Scots.
My initial mention of Hitler was to point out that calling Cromwell the greatest ever Englishman is as absurd as calling Hitler the greatest ever German.
You are right … Cromwell was not guilty of attempted genocide, only of mass murder and enslavement … a 17th century Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi …
There are couple of differences regarding a comparison to Confederate memorials.
Monuments to Lee, Jackson, Stuart, etc., were erected by the survivors/descendants of the people who actually engaged in rebellion.
The James II statues was actually erected two years before he was deposed and no one got around to destroying it.
The Washington statue was a gift from the state of Virginia during the 1920s (long after any post-rebellion sensitivities had been erased by assistance during WWI).
The Brits may, indeed, be less touchy about such monuments, (although no Federal effort to remove Confederate statuary has ever been undertaken and the issues of Jim Crow and Civil Rights have played a role in shaping current discussion).
To find a parallel to the Confederate statuary, I suspect that one would have to find a statue of Charles I erected between 1650 and 1658 or a statue of Richard III during the Lancastrian reign.
I’ve always thought he would have been an interesting person to meet, along with Shakespeare, Elizabeth I, Pepys, & Newton (a pretty unlikeable character personally, from all accounts).
Cromwell’s appearance in Ireland was quite brief and most of the military events were directed by others, notably Ireton. The harshness was much exaggerated, first by Royalists at the time for their own ends, and later by 19th c. Nationalists.
Cromwell did no worse than was common during that era of warfare. He was just better at it. Cromwell also brought the civil wars to an end. Ending warfare is generally a good thing, even if the actions during it cause much human misery. Many men who are arguably the “greatest” of their nation often have much human misery on their hands.
Personally I don’t believe Cromwell is the greatest Englishman. His record as Lord Protector leaves much to be desired. However, in waging war he was simply brutally efficient.
You wouldn’t jokingly say you were an IRA operative.
Protestants sometimes say they would fight against the English in the Battle of Bannockburn (and the decades of other skirmishes), for their separation of church and state (So that parishes were not run by head office planted/approved Priests and Bishops.)
You can also jokingly say you are a Viking or Danish or Norman invader… Well see the CURRENT royal family are descendants of the Norman invader … William the Conqueror… In 1066 England became a 2nd territory of Normandy, and after that the monarch became King of Normandy AND England… They subsequently lost Normandy, so reverting to being England only… and with a dearth (well literally a death , due to plague) of french speakers, they reverted to English…
You can even survive a party dressed as a Nazi… Unless you are a personality the PC crowd will harp on about in the media…
You could say you were anti-papist, but note even the Monarch is now allowed to be married to a catholic. (not be catholic themselves though.)… Its PC to be less belligerent to the Catholics. (Back in Northern Ireland, the pro-English still dress in Orange and go on marches to say “not catholic and proud of it.” )
I didn’t know it was “PC” to think imitating the Nazis was bad. :dubious:
Erm… while there might be a VERY indirect line of descent, I’m pretty sure dynastically the Norman kingship is considered long extinct.
Having friends on both sides of the divide in Northern Ireland, and being from London, I think I can say with confidence that you are mistaken. Dressing in orange or otherwise dissing Catholics is not necessarily pro-English. In fact, a lot of anti-Catholics despise the English almost as much. Us English are easy to hate.