Confirmation to a church-- A child's choice, or a parent's right?

Question for the masses:

When a child born to Lutheran faith parents is 14 years old, there is a period where they go through the confirmation, or catechism of that faith. Should parents be allowed to force their children to attend, or should the choice be left up to the children? Or maybe, they should be made to wait till the age of 18?

Yeah, I had to go through it, and I hated every minute I had to spend learning about something I already had doubts on. But I was not allowed to ask questions, or to make an informed choice, nor was I allowed to say no. I even tried to get out of it by skipping as many classes as I could. When it came to final-test time, my father had to practically beg the minister to let me even take the test. I passed, getting the highest score in the class. But not because I believed. I memorized. Seemed to be good enough for the minister.

But is memorization of numbers, names, and words really professing a belief, and a willingness to belong to a faith?

Don’t think so.

I am now pagan, and am happier with my faith than I ever was with someone else’s. I chose this faith on my own, after extensive reading and learning about many other religions.

I know that people want to raise their children to share their beliefs, their ethics, morals, and values. But when does the time come that the child is old enough to say that they don’t agree with it? Before they are signed up for something they never wanted, or after?

I’d say that 18 would be an appropriate age for religious confirmations. As a former catholic, I was confirmed at 15 and it was not my choice in the least. The myth of the strict catholic upbringing is really not all that far off. Congrats of finding something that makes you happy in life, BTW.

Remember, however that beliefs do not automatically translate into morals and values. As I became an atheist, I did not abandon the values of my upbringing, just the church part.

I think forcing a kid to believe is folly. You can’t do it. You can influence them, you can try to “mold” them, but to give them no choice in the matter? It just won’t work.

Everyone influences their kids. And a lot of parents drag their kids to church (of they go to church). And that’s fine, because they also drag their kids to the circus, and to the library, and whatnot. That’s part of what it means to be a kid. You get dragged to things. :wink:

But, being “dragged” is not the same as being “forced” to believe, or forced to go through the motions of believing. That’s an entire kettle of fish.

I was baptized when I was age 9. I wanted to do it. I was all for it. I cannot imagine that my parents would have forced me to do it had I had some objection to being baptized. Because God would know that they were “making” me do it, and that my heart wasn’t in it, so what would be the point? Frankly, I kind of think it’s an abomonation to try to force anyone to pretend to believe in something so important.

That’s an entirely different kettle of fish. But I’m sure you knew what I meant…

I believe in parents making kids go to church as long as the parents also go. I believe in parents encouraging kids to believe their beliefs & going through rites of passage. I don’t believe in parents trying to force such beliefs & rites upon their kids.

Confirmation is meaningless if it’s not an informed choice. I don’t think it’s all that great to drag kids to church either. If they are exposed to only one religious view then how meaningful is their faith? It’s basically just indoctrination, not education.

I had a conflict with my wife over this regarding our daughter. My wife is Catholic and wanted to baptize our daughter in the church. I objected on the grounds that it meant nothing to our daughter and was purely an exercise for my wife and her family. This led to more “discussions” about whether our daughter should be raised in the church, go to mass,etc. My wife also wants to send her to a Catholic school (both my wife and I also attended Catholic schools as kids). I objected that I didn’t want my daughter to be “brainwashed” etc. but we finally came to an agreement that I would not protest the “churching” of our daughter (which is important to my wife) as long as I was allowed to expose her to other viewpoints and help her understand Catholicism (and Christianity in general) in context with other world religions. It’s important to me that she learn to think for herself, to ask questions and to understand that she is allowed to believe whatever she wants.

If you just try to force your kid to believe what you believe you aren’t doing yourself or the kid any favor.

There’s a distinction between requiring a child to attend classes and requiring that the child be confirmed. The choice as to about whether to be confirmed should be left up to the child- it’s meaningless otherwise. But requiring a child to attend confirmation classes seems no different than requiring a child to attend any other religious education class- or German lesson, for that matter,

If the OP is asking as a legal matter, it seems to me that spiritual education is the parent’s sole discretion until age 18, abusive situations excepted.

If its a question of good parenting, that’s something else.

There is a similar practice in the Catholic Church wherein young teens (I was 13) undergo similar things. It’s called confirmation as well, but as I am not aware of what specific similarities exist (other than a general impression that they do involve similar things), I’ll just post this much:

If you are not genuine in your desire to receive the Graces/Gifts/etc. of a particular sacrament (or, in other instances, if you are unable to receive them), then you do not receive those graces. So if the child in question is, say, doing it for the gifts (as I was), then the confirmation is in name only/only visual, so to speak. My parents thought that I would get out of my atheism phase (I did, but not exactly the way they thought I would) and accept God again. But they also thought that my atheism phase was not a genuine belief that God did not exist. How wrong they were.

I am under the impression that it is, generally speaking, the individual’s wish to be confirmed, though it would not surprise me if more than a few teens were put through this against their wishes due to social expectations. At least in the RCC, however, it is very much possible to be confirmed later. I do not expect that any priest would have issue with going through the process again (though there is always a fee for the classes, of course, regardless of if it is one’s first time or 15th) assuming that the individual in question was genuine in desire and all that sort of thing.

But sacramentally speaking, if the person in question does not want the sacramental gifts (i.e. not cash but grace and such things), or if they otherwise are in conflict with the sacrament in question (be it marriage, holy orders, extreme unction, confirmation, baptism, first communion or penance) then IIRC they are not going to receive those gifts, so there really is no spiritual point in confirmation. However, re: keeping up appearances (the social aspects of religious beliefs), it is probably done more than the RCC realizes.

When I was 12 years old my step-mom told me that I could no longer live in her house if I didn’t get baptised. (mormon)

So I got baptised, and now I hate organized religion.

Kids deserve the choice. Someone that young knows nothing about the workings of the world. They are still concerned with school and allowances and jumping in puddles. How can you right then and there dedicate them to a faith and give them the expectation to hold it for the rest of their life?

Bleh.

I’ve taught two two-year cycles of Roman Catholic confirmation classes for teens, and I pretty much agree with everything said here about not forcing kids to accept confirmation – or any other sacrament (or rite of passage, if you prefer), for that matter. Encourage, sure. Strongly encourage, even, absolutely. But, as I told my students, if you don’t want to be confirmed, you should not be confirmed. And it really is the student’s decision, not the parents’. Our pastor backed me up on this.

I loathe the idea of “going through” classes and sacraments as if they were some kind of ticket to be punched. Social acceptance and family pressure are the wrong reasons to commit oneself to a faith – because that’s what these sacraments do, though, as iampunha says, if the individual doesn’t accept them, then they don’t count, pretty much. At least not as far as God is concerned. Various churches are a different matter, because all they can really do is cite parish/congregation records, not the heart of the individual concerned.

However, Paddy, you got one thing wrong. There’s a fee for religious education for kids, that’s true. But when adults want to be baptized and/or confirmed, they take a year-long class, and there is no fee of any kind. At least not in our parish, and I suspect not in others. I took that class, remember?

Diogenes, I wouldn’t knock all Catholic schools-your Jesuits give a DAMN fine education, and Catholic colleges are some of the best in the world.

Now then, when I was in 8th grade, (13), we were told that when it came to Confirmation, it was ultimately OUR choice. Our parents could NOT force us to go through it if we chose not to. Likewise, if our parents didn’t want us to get confirmed, and we DID, and we felt ready, it was also OUR decision to make.

So I think forcing someone to confirm is totally unethical. That was the whole point we were told-because our baptism was chosen by others. This time, it was up to US to make that decision for ourselves.

I dont think its worth the grief of going against the proud parents, in makin a choice at that age. For what its worth , i am not sure about other religions ,but you need that confirmation if you want to get married later in the catholic church.

I suppose its part of the church indoctrination phase , with young lives and get them caught up in the pagentry. However the true test of a confirmation is returning to church every sunday , holiday or not , weddings and funerals or not, people make up their own minds in time.

Declan

French Canadian chiming in.

Catholic tradition, in French Canadian family, is confirmation at age 11/12. Grade 6. No choice, if you’re in a catholic school. No choice if your parents say you’re gonna go to the classes and ceremony.

I was given the choice. I chose not to do it, because I didn’t feel comfortable reciting the credo (I was 10 when I was given the choice, and I sure as hell knew what I believed - or not…)

I still haven’t been “confirmed”. I don’t plan to do it, either. I’m glad I was given the choice.

Regarding marriage - you don’t need to be confirmed to be married by the catholic church - only one of the two (bride or groom) has to be. You have to get a dispensation from the bishop, but heck, they grant those for interfaith couples that marry under the catholic church crucifix. :smiley:

The only thing the church cares about is that there will be lots of little baby catholics - and the confirmed, catholic partner has to make The Promise that the children that are to come will be raised catholics.

I’m with doreen. There is a difference between being forced to attend classes and being forced to make a confession of faith.

The confirmation classes that I’m familiar with also make that distinction. (Of course, there is the hope is that the classes will lead to the confession, and the opportunity to do so was given at the end of the classes, but not required). They also allowed question asking.

Telling a child that he or she is going to take an in depth class about the parents’ religious faith does not seem unreasonable to me. (Telling a child that he or she must then claim that religious faith as their own, does.)

The whole point of confirmation - at least in the Church of England - is that it symbolizes an informed choice, as an adult (or near enough an adult to make an informed choice), to become a full member of the Church.

And it has to be informed, and it has to be voluntary. It’s meaningless, otherwise. Nobody should be forced into it. (And any sensible parents or church leaders should realize this. My parents were also Sunday School teachers, and keen for me to be confirmed - but they wouldn’t have dreamed of making me do it. As it happens, I wasn’t confirmed until my middle thirties, after I’d gone through several religious vicissitudes, at the end of which I realised it was the right choice for me.)

In the Baha’i faith, 15 is considered the age of spiritual consent. We don’t do anything as fancy as confirmation, etc. We do have Declaratioin cards. The card essentially says “I agree to follow, to the best of my ability, the laws of the Baha’i faith”. You sign the card, someone else in the Baha’i community (a Baha’i in good standing) signs the card, you send it to the National Spiritual Assembly, and a few weeks later you get a neat little kit and membership card in the mail. No one under the age of 15 can sign a card. They don’t have to sign it at 15, the individual decides when to do this. Everyone in the community has a kind of responsibility to make sure that a young person making a declaration isn’t doing it just to please Mom or Dad, but rather because they wish to give their hearts to God, and this is the informed way they choose to do it. This whole attitude is one of the things that attracted me to the faith in the first place.

Background for what I’m about to say: My parents are quasi-observant reform Jews - synagogue on Yom Kippur and Rosh Hashana, candles/wine/challah every Friday night. I’ve been raised Jewish, but have basically rejected it as a religion for me.

I had a bat mitzvah ceremony when I was 13. No say in the matter: I never even felt that I could bring up the topic of not having a bat mitzvah. It was assumed I wanted to and was happy with it, while in reality, I’d been questioning my ‘religious beliefs’ for about a year.

I have a feeling I’m not going to be popular for saying this, but I think that the tradition of bar/bat mitzvah is just stupid. A 13-year-old is just starting (ideally, has started) to think for themselves on issues like religion and spirituality. I think it’s fine for a parent to raise their children within a religion, but they must explain that there are other faiths out there, and it’s fine if something else feels right. This was never the case in my household. My mother was raised Catholic (never fully converted to Judaism, in fact), and we always went to mass with my relatives on Christmas eve. It made me really question a lot of things: basically, why do we do this? The catholics in my family are very strong in their beliefs, which confused me as a kid. They do this, we do this, why? There was never a chance to ask this question. Thus, I assumed that everyone just did what their parents did. I think this is a common trap - at such a young age, someone can’t decide whether or not they want to commit themselves to a certain faith.

Fast foward a few years. My parents did not allow me to not continue in my religious education: I attended confirmation classes for the next three years. I hated it. At first, just because I had no say in it, then because it conflicted with my tae kwon do classes (and eventually, because my rabbi turned out to be a bigotted ass, but that’s a different story). My parents refused to take that as a reason to let me ever skip class - me being confirmed was far more important to them then the fact that TKD was (is, really) one of the most important things in my life. My 'rents knew I was not friends with more than one or two people (despite my efforts) in my class, and disliked the rabbi, but That Didn’t Matter. I was Jewish, and That was That. I was confirmed in the spring of 02, and I have not set foot within a synagogue since.

When parents take it as a right to force their child to try and accept a religion, they’re attempting to dictate their child’s thought process. I went through an athiest, anti-religion phase right after my bat mitzvah, simply because Judaism and Catholicism were all I’d been exposed to, and I didn’t like either. My parents attempts to make me accept their faith ended up turning me away from it, which I doubt will ever change. Forcing a child into it if they don’t want it will make said child associate that religion with displeasure, which is not at all what the goal is.

If a child wants to pledge something to a religion, by all means, let them. But it can’t be taken seriously. A 13-year-old cannot legally enter a contract, and expecting them to decide their spiritual future is ridiculous. However, a 13-year-old is able to know “No, this doesn’t feel right.” Religion is based on how if feels - like trying on shoes. You try on a couple, and end up with one that just feels best. It shouldn’t be expected that a child will want to follow their parent’s religious footsteps.

Something I’ve noticed, though, is that if a child does choose to take their own spiritual path instead of mindlessly following their parents, the parents are very likely to take it as a personal insult to their parenting skills. My parents are still convinced that the reason I don’t consider myself a Jew is because they did something wrong. I see it as a compliment to them: they raised a daughter who is capable of thinking for herself and following her heart. My heart has led me to Buddhism. My parents counter that, that it’s possible to be a Jewish Buddhist, and one cannot, in fact, ‘stop’ being Jewish. I disagree - if my mother can stop being Catholic, I can stop being Jewish if it doesn’t fit me right - same as someone can stop being Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Protestant, etc.

If a parent sees it as their right to force their child to pledge their allegience to anything, that’s a sign that something is wrong. That means they’re not acknowledging their child as an intelligent, thinking being. I say, in short, back off and let the kid decide, when they’re ready, what they want.

NinjaChick, I had a very similar experience (except that mine was only Catholicism). I took religious education classes since I was in first grade and I never liked them. I never really believed and never really felt like I belonged in church. I told my mother about 3 months before I was supposed to be confirmed. She took it badly, but then she never mentioned it again. I took my medicine and got confirmed only because I don’t like making my mom cry.

My religious education teachers always told us “You don’t have to do it if you don’t want to…”. They fail to realize the extreme family pressure to do it, voluntarily or not. For the religious education teachers out there, may I suggest that you have a parents night after class or some such and explain to the parents that the kids have the decision, not them. It might save a bunch of kids from doing something they don’t feel comfortable with.

I remember my religion teacher telling us-“If your parents have a problem with your decision, let me talk to them.”

Because it wasn’t up to our parents, it was up to us.