Congratulations, Scott Dyleski.

So the suspect in the Pamela Vitale murder turns out to be a Goth. Well, I hope he’s happy. Once again, or rather, more so than usual, every kid who wears black, listens to KMFDM, writes angsty poetry, or any combination of the above and similar traits, will be hounded and regarded as guilty until proven innocent. “Well, that kid out in California who murdered the lawyer’s wife looked just like him! So who knows what he might do!”

Note: I am not defending Dyleski, who appears to be a fucking psycho. I’m just concerned for other Goths, psuedo-goths, “silly goths”, or, let’s face it, anyone who’s not mainstream, who will now have to pay for his sins. Wonder how long it’ll take for someone to get a pre-emptive beating or arrest, if it hasn’t happened already.

Another note: I’d love to be wrong on this. I hope I am. But…we’ll see.

You’re not wrong. This is what every visible outgroup goes through when one commits a crime. At least goths can choose not to wear black, though. Imagine what people have gone through, for the same reason, because their skin was black.

Bullshit. Goths choose to wear black, it’s not a matter of pigmentation of skin. “I wear black on the outside because I feel black on the inside”.

Goths should be allowed to wear whatever non-cornformist clothing they want. Did the hippie movement end because Manson et al were freaks?

Goths are a subset of society. And, as in every subset, there are troubled individuals who think they’ve found others who are “like” them. Problem is, there are more goths who would abhor this behavior for the very stigma it will bring to them than who would praise this deluded child.

When I was recently interviewed by the Discovery Channel for a show on Vampires, I made it a definite point to try to erase some of the stigma of goths, their music, and their fascinations with the atrocities committed by some who fall under the blanket term Goths.

And, if I remember correctly, the gentleman who solicited a victim over the internet in germany for a willing partner who would allow him to cut him up and eat him was NOT a Goth. But I bet you heard more about the murders committed by so-called “goths” who killed someone simply to “drink their blood”. Lunacy.

As a Granny Goth, I resent the fact that I would have to change my appearance simply to not be persecuted for this young man’s mistake.


I think you’re misreading RickJay’s post, Ink.

well, no, but don’t think for a moment that we weren’t routinely harrassed.

They’re so cute when they get riled.


I trust goths about as much as I trust the mustached (not at all).

I’m sorry, but if you go around in vampire makeup and a shroud, getting people to feel comfy around you is going to be an uphill battle. I’d thought unnerving the button-down masses was sort of the point. You want to be treated like everyone else? Who knew?

Some of us got over that “shock the normals” bullshit when we were teens, just like every other teenager gets over it. Some of us continue to wear black clothes and purple hair becuase we like it. We wear what we find attractive. Just like everyone else. Who knew?

When you really get to know “the Goths”, they’re generally so pasty, anemic, and absurd, it’s difficult to find them threatening.

I’d agree with you if I thought it was only the extremists who are going to be harassed. Unfortunately, people who are looking for a target don’t take degrees of “gothiness”, or whatever trait they’re looking for, into account. All it takes is being just enough outside the norm.

Actually, I don’t know where this “goths are killers” meme really comes from. Okay, there’s some shock-rock acts that pretend to be violent (Alice Cooper, Marylin Manson) that look vaguely gothy. In terms of real killers, not so much. I mean, I don’t keep very close track, but who’s out there? The Memphis Three? Anyone who’s ever even glanced at that case has concluded that those poor souls were framed. The Columbine kids? IIRC, they didn’t self-identify as goths, nor were they considered goths by others in the school, nor did they hang out with any of the self-identified goths in the school and/or town. Pretty much the only people calling them goths were the national media. Locally, there’s Neville, who got liquored up and crashed into another car, killing a woman. But (a) he’s a local story (b) he promotes gothic events, but doesn’t look or dress goth, so he wouldn’t be identified as such be a stranger, and © while stupid and despicable, his lethal act was not deliberate. Up until Dyleski, who pretty much strikes me as a Columbine copycat, I can’t think of any gothy killer who’s hit the national news.


For a board that so revels in its supposed staunch liberalism, tolerance, and open-mindedness, you people sure know how to pigeonhole a group of people. Shame on you.

I went to high school with a girl named Renée (yes, it was her parents put the accent on the E). She was an A-student with dreams of going to culinary school (which she achieved). She would periodically bring in homemade fudge, enough for 40 students to share. She also wore black clothes and a black trenchcoat every day, worshipped Jim Morrison, and wrote very depressing poetry.

I also went to high school with a guy named Ian. This was the one guy in the class who did everything well. B+ average, extremely talented drummer (he would play for our pep rallies), master artistic photographer, exceptional lacrosse player, and an all-around nice guy. He had long black hair and used to cut his long fingernails into claws. He listened to Type O Negative and Black Sabbath and played his drums for a death-metal band. And at the age of 25, he now owns two Acura dealerships and a $400,000 house.

This board, out of all groups in society, should know not to judge a book by its cover. Disgusting.


Sucks, though I bet this also happened after Columbine. “He’s wearing black - holy shit!” :smack:

I’d actually find it more jarring if the accent was absent.

You bet it happened? You sure can. That attitude was widespread. It became an imperative to further ostracize kids in the outgroups because now they were seen as potential mass-murderers, in addition to being freaks.

People complained loudy and forcefully if school officials didn’t take action against non-conformists, if for not other reason than having “funny colored hair”.

I bet with total confidence. I just couldn’t produce a cite, not knowing any Goths at the time. I know how people reacted to anything that could be termed unusual or threatening behavior afterward.

I can’t really provide a cite, but it is a personal experience:
A kid in my high school, a few months after Columbine was suspended for wearing a trenchcoat. Nothing else, just wearing a trenchcoat.

Here, goth is the new mainstream.

Mischievous, I’m surprised this hasn’t made the national news, but for about a month or so it was all the rage down where I am in the Shallow South (as in, close to the Mason-Dixon Line, not superficial). A girl named Taylor B. was found and her screwbuddy, a self-professed and proud Goth, confessed to the killing. He told police that during a…session…he performed autoerotic asphyxiation on her, and, well, you can go from there.

End of background. Anyway for a while a lot of local newscasters are doing the “Goths: Are they safe? What you may not know about your children’s friends! News at 11.” It seems to have died down, but the prejudice is there still.

I swear, if more people would listen to the musician/artist/writer who is Voltaire and learn more about the Goth scene, it would make everybody’s lives so much easier. Of course the same thing could be said about X author and X race/creed/sexuality/blank.