Wow, I didn’t know Dio’s daughters posted here. Got any other lies?
Sue, but you would look a lot better if you were the better man in your rhetoric.
It’s rather easy to make (for instance) Diogenes look ridiculous without making reference to his family or his job. And it’s more entertaining, at least for me. Like I said, this is supposed to be only semi-serious.
My $.02 worth. I don’t think you are breaking any rules. Although I am not always completely sure, especially when it comes to someone who dissents from the hive mind as you (and I) do.
Regards,
Shodan
That’s a matter of opinion, and one I’d disagree with.
I think the best argument for your position is that the legal system already has enough stuff clogging it up without adding stuff like this to it. But what I’d stack up against that is that if the legal system is not going to get involved with an assault like this, to the extent that police try to discourage the victim from pressing charges, then the victim’s only recourse is to simply fight back. And if people worry that they might be in situations where they’re physically overmatched by someone who is in a mood to push them around, but the law isn’t going to help them out, we’re going to turn into a society of Bernie Goetzes. Can’t say I’m fond of that idea.
So yeah, I think if someone being assaulted in such a manner wishes to press charges, the police shouldn’t talk him/her out of it, and the prosecutor should prosecute if the evidence is there for a conviction.
The courts are already backed up with cases of REAL assaults. It’s ridiculous to say we should prosecute every time an old man grabs somebody’s arm.
But you at least agree now that if prosecuted, he’d be convicted?
The problem with this approach is that the putative victim did not have clean hands. Yes, if he had merely been walking down the street when a crazed Democratic Congressman grabbed his wrist and demanded to know who he was, I agree that the law should get involved, even if the actual physical damage suffered was identical to this case.
But here, he invited the conduct. He approached with a camera and a gotcha-question in an obvious attempt to capture something that could be used to make the man look bad. While this isn’t legal justification for a physical battery, it’s enough of a common-sense justification that it places this encounter into de minimis territory.
In my opinion.
I agree that the record contains sufficient evidence to support a conviction – a rational fact-finder could find him guilty.
That’s a pretty fair distance from “He should be prosecuted,” and even a jump away from “He would be convicted if prosecuted.” Yes, he could, if the prosecutor was so inclined, and if the judge or jury took the events seriously enough. All of which are unlikely.
But, yes, possible.
Not a chance.
sigh
Why not? The common-law elements of criminal battery are:
[ul]
[li]an offensive touching[/li][li]to another person’s body[/li][li]without the consent of the person touched[/li][/ul]
A fact-finder can easily conclude that all three elements were met, especially if the victim testifies as to his lack of consent and the offensiveness of the touch. The video demonstrates the touch and buttresses the lack of consent.
I don’t get how the kid’s conduct mitigates the congressman’s actions. The guy’s a public official. A kid attempts to interview with him with a rather benign question. If he was more like the guy that Buzz Aldrin punched, or asked something like “why do you like killing babies”, I’d probably agree with you. But the video doesn’t support the kid doing anything aggressive or offensive. I’m almost tempted to ask if you’ve actually watched the video. But I’m sure you did, so can you point the the specific part that in some way begins to justify the congressman’s actions?
I understand the pedantics. I’m saying that in practical terms, you’d never get 12 people to vote to convict. The touching isn’t “offensive” enough. He did not do injury or attempt do injury, he was provoked, he was outnumbered, the kid was in no danger and he wanted the kind of reaction that he got.
I think 99 juries wouldn’t convict, perhaps.
But “never” is not the same thing as “almost never.”
Grabbing someone and refusing to let them go is threatening.
No it isn’t, and the kid could have pulled away easily if he’d wanted to, but he didn’t want to.
Posting about Dio’s daughters was a personal attack on Dio, not his daughters. It’s nonsensical to say that I personally attacked someone who doesn’t post here.
By that logic, many SDMB members have personally attacked Palin and Bush and Obama etc etc–you’d be hard-pressed to find a poster who hasn’t personally attacked someone.
Legally? No. As I have conceded, there is no legal defense of battery that is tenable here.
But the putative victim approaches with a camera and asks, “Do you fully support the Obama agenda?” That’s a meaningless question, on the order of “Have you stopped beating your wife?” He realizes what we all do when we watch the video: this is a gotcha attempt, an attempt to get footage that can be used to make him look bad. And when he realizes this, he gets mad. I believe that most jurors would grasp this, especially if the Congressman got on the stand and was apologetic for his actions but explained how any answer he gave would have been chopped up and used against him.
And the victim’s cross-examination would highlight the utter non-issue.
“Did you have occasion, sir, to seek medical treatment following the Congressman’s actions?”
“Did you attempt to pull away from the Congressman?”
“Do you know how old the Congressman is?”
“Would it surprise you to learn he is 68?”
“How old are you?”
As public figures Palin and Bush and Obama etc etc are in the limelight and subject to comment on the behavior, policies etc, etc; as a poster here DtC is also.
Dio’s daughters aren’t either of those.
Does it really matter to our judgment if it was planned? If the Congressman had reacted appropriately, they wouldn’t have anything (new) against him.
Your momma’s a whore.
You first started attacking me before I’d ever said a word to you on this board. I’m guessing I’m not the only one. I don’t actually care, though. Attack me all you want. This status/class one-upsmanship game you try to play with me (and everyone else) on this board is not something I care about, and I am not wounded by what you seem to imagine are devastating shots to my manhood. Fire away, if that makes you feel good about yourself. It doesn’t do me any harm.