Im watching something about a woman given GHB. The guy is claiming consensual sex …
Now a dumb question. If someone who is normally in a consensual relationship [frex mrAru and I] is given GHB, can you then consider that as rape?
My thought is that GHB would make you perform something that otherwise you would not do such as anal, or group sex, or even unprotected sex…so even if it was in a consensual relationship, he gave you something to remove any self control. Why would he need to give you GHB if he wasnt going to something that you didnt want to do, which in my eyes is rape because you are being forced to do something you dont want to do… Obviously this is part of the same thought that forcing your wife to have sex is rape, which is a fairly new concept [as in last 20 years or so]
First, for those not in the know about all things rape, what is GHB?
I’m assuming is some kind of drug? did the woman, willingly take GHB, or was it administered without her consent? I think that would make a big difference.
Rape is based on consent. It’s not, “Well, she didn’t exactly say no.” She has to give consent and that means being clear headed. Anything short of an unambiguous “Yes” is over the line.
Has effects similar to alcohol and can also induce amnesia so that the victim doesn’t remember the incident or details of it.
So yes, it would be rape if the person didn’t know they were taking it. Or even if they knew they were taking it and then subjected to acts they hadn’t agreed to previously.
I hate the binary nature of rape as a crime. Why the “it is or it isn’t”? On a legal scale, I’d say guilty, though I don’t know the details. On an ethical/moral scale, I wouldn’t rank it that high…probably on par with black-eye assault rather than coughing-blood assault.
Because the matter of consent is a yes or no question.
Is the person involved capable of giving consent? If that person is a child or is mentally or physically incapacitated, then he or she cannot give consent.
Did the person involved give consent? If it is not a yes, then it must be a no.
Otherwise, we have people claiming that she didn’t say no, so it must have been yes - when the victim involved was drugged, beaten, gagged, or one year old.
It is how we ensure that every person’s right to determine what happens to their body is guaranteed.
If the woman involved did not consent to ingesting GBH with the knowledge of its consequences (mental incapacitation, amnesia, et cetera) and did not agree to sex while under its effects, then the man in question committed rape.
So, a guy and a girl go to a rave separately and both independently take GBA with full knowledge and consent. They wind up sleeping together. The girl or guy could then claim they were raped? That can’t be true right?
Yes, in most states (including ours). You cannot give informed consent while under the influence of intoxicants, and whether or not you willingly became intoxicated has nothing to do with it (legally).
That means if you meet a girl at a bar, have a few brews, and she drags you home for a shag, you can file charges the next morning. So can she.
It’s a peculiarity of the legal system. Happens all the time in college, incidentally - girl has drinks, girl has sex, girl wakes up and thinks, “whoops!”, and files charges.
Because she didn’t give informed consent, the sex was by statutory definition sexual assault.
So, 21 year-old guy goes to a rave and takes GHB. He wakes up in bed with a couple in their 70’s. There’s lube running out of the crack of his ass and there’s lots of SMDS toys scattered about the room. The couple say in unison “We don’t remember much about last night either, but it seems like you were pretty terrific.”
He should be cool with that right?
These seemingly difficult ethical issues get a lot clearer when you’re on the receiving end.
That’s a slightly different scenario, because the burden would be on the 21-year-old guy to prove that the old people knew or had reason to suspect that he was intoxicated.
Well, sometimes. But absent the suspicion of anal rape of a hetero guy, the scenario where he gets drunk, wakes up next morning, sees what’s on the pillow next to him and seriously considers chewing off his own arm rather than wake her up… that’s considered humorous, but not grounds for a rape charge as I understand the societal view.
No it really isn’t. In the majority of states, not saying no is sufficient. There is no requirement for affirmative consent. I was responding in particular to the idea that “[a]nything short of an unambiguous “Yes” is over the line.”
IANAL ( but apparently, lawyering is mostly just reading and I can do that as well as anyone).
According to this article on MA law, that isn’t quite the case. You can’t just have a few drinks, have sex and then cry rape.
“for the Commonwealth to meet its burden of proof on the complainant’s nonconsent by establishing that she was incapable of consenting, the Commonwealth must show not simply that she lacked sobriety or was intoxicated, but that as a result of the alcohol and drugs she consumed, the complainant’s physical or mental condition was so impaired that she could not consent.”
also
“The risk is too great that they may have interpreted it to mean that a finding of intoxication of any degree, like a finding of unconsciousness, for example, vitiates consent as a matter of law.”
So in other words, if you are passed out or falling all over yourself drunk, you can’t give consent. If you just have a huge buzz and are acting like an asshole, you can.