You never read the book. How can you be so sure that my summary is wrong?
If you wish to refute something I said, by all means, educate yourself and do so.
I’m giving you my impression of books I have read. If I went to a KKK meeting and told you ‘My impression is that they hate people who are not White.’, would you tell me that it was ‘uncited’ and then demand I prove it when you could find out for yourself?
Please, refute one of my points. I would love to see you bring up some kind of fact or reference of your own that proves me wrong. But what you’re doing right now is ignorantly waving your hand and saying ‘I think you’re wrong for no other reason than that I don’t agree with you.’
Don’t take my word for it. Read these things for yourself and then post your own original thoughts on the source material. Don’t sit here and tell me that you’re entirely ignorant of what I’m talking about yet you still think I’m wrong. That’s pointless.
sigh. One last time, then I’m not beating my head against this wall any more.
I didn’t say your summary was wrong. I said it was unsupported.
Unless you give me some reason to suspect that you’re giving an objective view of the books, your claims don’t rise to the level of interesting me enough to get me to read the books. I’m starting from my experience of knowing a lot of feminists who aren’t anti-male, and your claims come across as mildly lunatic to me. Unless you provide some support for them, I’ll dismiss them as not worth my time.
I’ve got better things to do than read every book somebody online suggests I read. Give me some indication that I’ll find something interesting in the books, and I’ll check them out. Otherwise, I’ll dismiss your claims as uninteresting.
And you’re welcome to the last word on the subject. unless you give me a reason to find your claims interesting, I’ll give it to you.
Daniel, the Tavris book is just lovely. She talks about men and women both, and she does justice to both genders in the way she talks about the way strict gender roles shortchange both genders. I remember being very touched by her portrayal of men. It was quite a nice, and refreshing book. Don’t let Catsix’s dismissive screed against Tavris scare you away. Tavris is truly egalitarian, but she does understand the difference between equality and fairness. The title is The Mismeasure of Woman but it also deals with the mismeasure of men, and it’s refreshing.
In a debate, and since you’ve made several accusations against people for supposedly not knowing the rules of a debate, the person claiming a fact, ANY fact has a responsibility within that debate to support their claim with a(some) hard data source(s).
You haven’t done so. You claimed that this book was supporting your belief that the author was a manhater. But then you refused to back that claim up with cites.
YOU made the claim, it’s your responsiblity in an honest debate to provide the proof. This isn’t a difficult concept to understand.
You seem to be refusing to do so because you’re either too lazy to back up your claims, or there is no back up.
As to your comments here:
quote:
CanvasShoes said:
I also provided a link to the US Census, which outlines how men are still at 15.8 % to women’s 5.5 % for making $75,000 or more per year.
the link I provided broke it down by types of work (such as service industry, exec, etc) you just had to look further than the first page. In addition, the other cites I provided also included information on what you asked for.
I think that they should be paid the same PER hour. If they work 32 hours and another person works 40, then the person working 40 should be paid for 40 hours on his/her timecard. Again, you’re making an assertion here, and then not backing it up with fact.
You’re insinuating that “feminists” (for real women who aren’t feminists" would NEVER ever benefit from seniority), have taken the benefits as you outline above from men. You’re making an unsupported statement. If ALL these women are ousting men from their jobs, their seniority and making more than the men for fewer hours. Where is this happening? Provide a cite, in other words a link to hard data, not more of your personal opinions.
Your own link to the article you DID finally provide, in NO way supports your assertions that feminists are making men less equal. For the most part it outlines ENROLLMENT. No where is there any proof or support for your theories that the “feminists” made this happen. Your article lists that there are many reasons for the increased enrollment. Not one of them is “because NOW is making sure men won’t be able to get into college as much as women are able to”.
In the same article, YOUR article btw, it goes on to say that the male professors well outnumber the female professors.
Your article also states that out of a 58 % female college figure, only 39% are in an undergraduate program. Hardly “keeping men in their place” or making them “less equal” etc.
quote:
A link which completely debunks andy’s claim that affirmative action is a means with which to put men in the less equal position.
Commented upon and answered above. That more women are ENROLLED doesn’t support your claims that it’s because men in turn are being turned away. And it especially doesn’t support your claims that it’s NOW or the “feminists” who brought those changes to pass.
So you don’t think it should be unlawful to exclude someone from an activity because of their gender then huh?
quote:
Have you ever been in the service? I sure hope so, because if you’ve spent the last couple of pages throwing this in the feminazis faces regarding their being “chickenshit” and haven’t served yourself.
Asked and answered. This is a red herring on both yours and andy’s part. And an issue aside from feminism, or maleism or any ism. That people don’t feel that the draft is correct has no bearing on their views on feminism.
And it’s certainly a non-issue with both margin and me, since we both VOLUNTEERED and served our country.
Volunteering, if I may say so. The only thing standing between me and Iraq at this point is my bad back and some stupid Army doctors. There are women ahead of me in Iraq, by the way. They believe they are equal to men. And you know? So do the men with whom they serve. I believe I am equal to any man. Therefore I have the duty and honor of serving my country, as does any person who benefits from its freedom. I have held up my hand not once, but twice, to swear an oath to serve that country and defend its constitution. Feminism or not, it’s an honor I would have been denied a hundred years ago, because I am a woman.
That’s right. You’re still in. But you know? We’re wasting our collective “breath” (typing fingies).
We’re the evil new order keeping the white man down. We might as well just fess up, so that they can prepare themselves for the doom that will be foisted upon them.
SHHH! Otherwise, they’ll figure it out! They almost got it for a while there—I mean, after all, it sort of illustrates even more contempt for feminists to say they do all this dominating of society, and yet women are still lagging behind just about everywhere.
But, whew, we headed them off before they discovered that we secretly rule the world.