Conservative French President Sarkozy swinging to the left?!

[BrainGlutton]

@wmfellows

Why are you thanking me? I heartily disapprove of state interference in the market, as it is generally disastrous and reducing in public welfare. That the Statist Right on the Continent support oligarchy and monopoly out of elite interest is hardly a positive argument.

Because, on this side of the pond, it is enormously, incredibly refreshing to hear a self-ID’d conservative of any kind say something as plainly commonsensical as “State interference in the market is not per se socialist.” You won’t hear anything like that from any American RW, I promise you

[foolsguinea]

@BrainGlutton

Try to imagine Bush 2 or Bush 1 or Reagan or even Nixon talking like that! Are European RWs RWs at all by American standards?!

Well, what matters is whether anything comes out of it. Eternal values are supposed to be part of the conservative complex, but the pro-business crowd pooh-pooh them. It’s nice to see a “conservative” stand up for something more than money, but it’s not that new. I’ve heard words before. Show me results, Sarko.

[foolsguinea]

@Wesley_Clark

Le Pen is right wing, which is why he only won 18% of the vote in 2002.

In the US, someone like Le Pen would easily win a national election. His stance on the issues is not too radical by US standards:

Reinstatement of the death penalty
Anti-immigration stance
Anti-abortion
Resisting international organizations (the EU, UN, etc)
Xenophobia against muslims
Support of torture

While xenophobia in general sells, including both distrust of int’l organizations & anti-immigrant feeling, & someone who was primarily associated with it could get votes, I doubt he could “easily win.” Tom Tancredo & Duncan Hunter were the major nativists last election (yeah, I know, an Italian nativist, what are we coming to), & they were outmatched by candidates with a more optimistic, “friendly” outlook: Romney, Huckabee, & McCain. The fearmongers can whip up rallies, but I think more voters tend to go for someone who makes them feel good.

@Der_Trihs

As for oral sex; some apes indulge in it, so it certainly didn’t start with the French or even ancient Greece.

They learned it from the French.

[wmfellows]

@BrainGlutton

I’ve always understood that Petain, like Franco, was actually more of a traditionalist-authoritarian than a fascist as such (fascism being plenty populist and social-revolutionary and future-looking in its own way, as discussed here) – am I mistaken?

I never suggested Petain was a fascist. But he was certainly not the same as the Gaullistes of today.

In any case, what are the defining elements of Gaullism (and, presumably, of Sarkozy’s politics)?

Defining elements?
Republicans (in the French sense, i.e. neither monarchist nor bonapartist nor non-democratic authoritarian).
Attachment to a Grand France
Pro private enterprise, but to the extent private enterprise serves the Greater Good of France (state intervention in economy, private sphere, to serve French interest, as defined and understood by the gov’t elite)
Not favourable to ultra montane traditionalists in the end.

FOr a short post, must run, I think that is good enough a contrast to Petain’s traditionalist authoritarian mode, and in the end anti-Republicanism.

[Nancarrow]

@Starving_Artist

Funny how that lunatic “fringe” tends to consist, philosophically, to approximately half the country’s population (and growing, if recent polls are to be believed).

“fringe” as regarded by the population of the planet at large. Half of America’s population does indeed constitute a ‘fringe’. So would the other half, if its political compass was similarly misaligned with the rest of the world’s.

And considering the correlation of that ‘lunatic fringe’ with the group of people that reject the concept of evolution by natural selection, I’d say that ‘lunatic’ is a very, VERY good descriptor indeed.

[Starving_Artist]

@Nancarrow

“fringe” as regarded by the population of the planet at large. Half of America’s population does indeed constitute a ‘fringe’. So would the other half, if its political compass was similarly misaligned with the rest of the world’s.

So it’s your belief that all the world except the American right is just one big happy liberal family?

@Nancarrow

And considering the correlation of that ‘lunatic fringe’ with the group of people that reject the concept of evolution by natural selection, I’d say that ‘lunatic’ is a very, VERY good descriptor indeed.

And it’s your position that every right-wing American is a creationist?

I’m afraid it is not we who are the lunatics so long as the world is populated by such as you, my friend.

[Starving_Artist]

My apologies for that last crack. I just noticed that this was GD rather than the Pit.

[amanset]

@BrainGlutton

but oral sex is associated throughout the English-speaking world with the word “French” for some reason.

It is? As a Brit I can’t remember ever hearing a name/phrase for oral sex involving the French.