If you couldn’t tell from my username, I live on the coast of Maine. So far, it looks like the bill has been killed by committee, but I’m sure that is not the end of it.
I understand Vermont has never had a concealed weapons permit system, nor have they ever prohibited the carrying of concealed weapons. Vermont, like Maine, is a largely rural state, and we are both usually in the running with New Hampshire for the title of the safest state in the country.
We have been liberalizing the gun laws in the country for quite some time, but only a handful of states have removed the permit requirement. Are there any statistics out yet for the states that have made this change? My mind wants to tell me that this won’t really be as drastic or as dangerous of a change in a state like Maine as it might be in much more crowded, urban areas. But I’m not really sure.
Is this a good idea or a bad idea for a state like Maine?
I’m going to try and leave my personal opinions on the merits out of this and argue that the effects are probably pretty limited. Maine is a shall-issue state already, meaning they’ll give a CCL to anyone who fills out the paperwork and meets the requirements. This change will mean that one form and a 1-2 month delay are removed. It won’t make it all that easier to CC, especially since the people who are most interested in doing so already have permits.
Agreed. In my state the governor just vetoed a “constitutional carry” bill saying that dangerous felons would be carrying weapons and that there would be blood running in the streets. Basically the same crap that was said before shall-issue CCW was passed.
I don’t see a problem with it at all and it would save a person $150.
I’d like to ask your Guv “since when do felons get permits to carry weapons?” Is he saying dangerous felons aren’t now already carrying weapons? :rolleyes:
From my research one can open carry in Maine without a permit, except in a vehicle. If one can carry a firearm in public without a permit openly, why does one need a permit to carry concealed? What changes so drastically when one covers their weapon that they need special permission from the state?
I’ve asked this question of our licensing requirement for CCW here in Wisconsin. Open carry is legal, protected by the state constitution, no license needed. The training requirement for a CCL is a joke (my friend sent his army records from when he was in the Korean conflict and they accepted it). And if one doesn’t require training for open carry, why would they need it for concealed carry?
I’d say it was just a way for the state to make money, but the license fee is minute.
Vermont does have a below-average firearms death rate. But Maine is above average:
Perhaps what you mean by safe is that there isn’t a lot of crime.
Most guns deaths aren’t criminal acts, but impulsive suicides made with the tool at hand. And guns are much more effective than almost all other suicide tools.
Some here have said that suicide isn’t, to them, a problem. But, to be blunt about it, I don’t think I would feel one bit better about it because a loved one committed suicide as opposed to being a homicide victim. So I would look at the overall gun death rate, not the firearms death rate, when asking if the state has a gun problem. And I wouldn’t want to make that problem worse.
It’s not a drastic change, no. I think the primary effect will be to send a message to all the handgun enthusiasts, reading about this on the web, that Maine would be a great place to live. That’s why I would, if a Mainer, hope this fails.
Permits have mattered, only and ever, to those who wished to be in compliance with the law, whatever the law was. Those who weren’t concerned about the law carried without permits whether they were even legally able to own a handgun in the first place. The only thing constitutional carry will change is relieving the law abiding of having to fill out forms and pay fees. The idea that a permit system somehow keeps criminals from carrying guns is hilariously naive. The sole purpose is to restrict those who obey the law.
Cite where this effect has taken place in the other states (Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Wyoming, Kansas, Vermont, etc) that have constitutional carry? Seeing that in most of the U.S. open carry without a permit and easily obtained CCW permits is the norm, why on Earth would Maine dropping their permit requirement draw a single person to live there? That idea just seems silly to me.
Here is the argument: Suppose there is a police encounter and it is discovered that someone is carrying a concealed weapon. Under the current system, the person must produce a permit to the police officer which then proves that the carrier is not a prohibited person (e.g. a convicted felon).
Under the new system, the officer wouldn’t know if the person was carrying illegally and would have to let the person continue on his merry way.
So in this sense, felons would be able to carry weapons without being readily detected.
What exactly do you mean by “encounter”? And how did the officer discover the concealed weapon?
Even on a traffic stop the words “felony offender” flash on my squads mobile data terminal. This happens even if the subject is no longer on paper (parole/probation). A felon is a felon. it doesn’t go away even if they served their time. If an officer has RS to pat someone down, or PC to search them, they are certainly also going to run a Q&W (Queries and Warrants) on them, and will learn they were not lawful to possess a firearm. If a peace officer has reason to detain someone in a way that a weapon is found he has reason to run them and will find out their record.
The average person might not know this stuff, but your governor should. He’s just selling the people a bill of goods.
And as such, gun permitting laws do deter many people who might become suicidal, or might have children in their home, or visiting their home. They also mean that effectively, fewer teens have access to the household’s gun, so they probably keep guns away from some younger criminals, as well.
But I doubt the difference between open carry and concealed carry matters much.
Where I could see that getting harder in Maine is that we have no “stop and identify” law. So how would you go about making that determination if the person has no obligation to give you any identifying information (outside of a traffic stop)?
What you failed to answer is, how does an officer know the subject is carrying a concealed weapon in the first place? If he had lawful reason for a search then the lack of an identify law is meaningless because the encounter has gone beyond that.
Permit laws have never, EVER stopped a criminal fro carrying a concealed weapon. At most all they have ever done is added another charge when a criminal is arrested for something else and found with a weapon. If the subject is a felon and the weapon is a firearm, felon in possession charge is far, far more serious than the unlawful CCW charge is in most states.
BTW, here in Wisconsin one can carry a concealed firearm on their own property, in their own business, in their own home, or in/on the home, business, or property of another (with owners permission), without the need for a CCL. This is protected by the state constitution, and upheld by a state supreme court ruling. Yet the minute the same person steps into public they need a license. That’s just ridiculous.
Nebraska has cross indexed the concealed carry permits with the driver’s license database. In a routine stop, I am required to inform the officer that I have a CHP and to advise him if I am carrying my weapon or not.
But a lot of states have not done this. In Maine one is not required to inform and officer.
And you are comparing a law abiding persons actions to those of what a criminal would do. This idea that WV governor has that somehow constitutional carry will increase criminal carry is absurd.
So if you, as a police officer, detain someone, search him, and find a firearm, do you do anything to determine if the person is not prohibited from possessing that firearm? What do you do if the person refuses to identify himself, itself not illegal in Maine? How can you run a “queries and warrants” search on someone if you don’t have that information available to you?
That’s not quite how I read the Nebraska law, but perhaps I am mistaken.
Any time a peace officer personally stops, detains, questions, or addresses a permitholder for an official purpose or in the course of his or her official duties, Nebraska Revised Statue 69-2440(2) provides:
I don’t see any requirement to inform an officer if contact is made and you are not carrying your weapon. I don’t dispute that it’s a prudent idea, but I’m not seeing the statutory requirement.
The OP isn’t discussing the difference between “open carry” (meaning openly carrying your weapon, i.e. unconcealed) and “concealed carry”. It is a discussion between concealed carry with a permit after taking a course (which is the law in most states) and concealed carry without a permit (which is law in 5 states).
:dubious: