Contact with the Great Beyond--Psychics like Praagh

[stpauler]

I’m still waiting for an answer on this one…

quote:

Originally posted by lekatt
Quoting from the Bible does not make anything factual. Jesus healed the sick, taught about God, saw into the souls of men, saw into the spirit world and fortold coming events. He lived without condemning and helped everyone He could. The same as psychics do within the limits of their ability. Jesus commanded the force of love better because He understood it better than anyone.

Forgive those that attack you, they have not discovered their spiritual nature and do not know God.

I’m just very curious about this statement, Lekatt, are you purporting that all psychics and their motives are altruistic and are on the level of Jesus?

*Originally posted by lekatt *
**
The thread is going somewhere, it is showing more and more the phoniness of cold readings.

**

Then again, should I expect any sensible, logical ideas…?

[Mr.Miskatonic]

I am also curious that if there is no such thing as cold reading, as lekatt suggests, then why did Gary Schwartz, who tested these mediums, bother to take (insufficient) steps to try to prevent something that does not happen?

[Phoenix_Dragon]

*Originally posted by lekatt *
I would like you make up a cold reading, probably no more than 10 possible hits and then we can put that into a question form on my site or we can get a third party to test a hundred people what ever may seem fair to you. I want you to agree with the way it is presented. I have asked for this and also Randi’s complete method so we can test it also. I have asked several times but it is ignored.

Testing my ability to cold-read people will not prove or disprove psychic ability, only wether I have any skill at cold-reading people… If you want to demonstrate psychic ability, do so. You keep avoiding any chance to do so. In fact, you seem to be avoiding anything that isn’t going exactly your way. Again, I challenge you to a test; You claim to have psychic abilities, so you should be able to easily show that to us. If you do have psychic abilities, it should be an easy matter to perform a simple test, but your continual avoidance of any display that could verify the existance or non-existance of such abilities puts a serious shadow of doubt over your claim. Are you going to put up, or are you going the rather questionable avoidance of anything solid?

**Now as for my brother and I. He is five years older, so we hardly did anything together, his interests were not mine. I don’t remember any disagreements, because I never saw him much. **

Five years isn’t a whole lot. Are you honestly saying you and your brother have never disagreed on anything, ever?

**I, nor any other person would believe any of Randi’s statistics until he puts the truth on the table on what he does and how he does it. Remember he is a master of deception. And he has proved that over and over again. **

What the hell do you want to know about it? They show the tests to an audience, the psychic and he agree on the exact conditions of the test beforehand, and success or failure is determined simply by the psychic performing the action he said he could X out of Y times, as agreed upon before the test. What more do you want to know?That’s everything, right there… You say you want to test his methods, well, how do you want to test them? What is there to test? What do you even mean by that?

I looked it over. You had about 50% hits and then only by stretching to help the readings.

Actually, he had 11 out of 16 calls, or about 69%. Pretty good, overall, especially considering the complete lack of feedback or starting information (You can get a lot of information just by talking to someone face-to-face). And as for “stretching,” it didn’t look like any more than had to be done for other psychic readings. In fact, he actually stretched to call a ‘miss’ in at least one case (Hair color; Most people say he’s brown, but he says it’s blond, which is, technically speaking, normally a bright shade of brown), and a couple that he called “unverifiable misses,” meaning, calls that could be a hit but he didn’t know (Like Altea’s fourth call, or the “cancer” bit…). Where is he “stretching” to get hits? Come on, specific examples, here… Meatros scored almost 70%, which while not quite as good as the 90% or so many psychics claim, is still incredibly good for there being “no such thing” as cold-reading…

[GOM]

*Originally posted by stpauler *
**
I’m just very curious about this statement, Lekatt, are you purporting that all psychics and their motives are altruistic and are on the level of Jesus?

**

Hi stpauler,

That is the spin that almost all “psychics” use. They claim it’s all good. They claim there is no dark side. Obviously this view runs into a serious problem when you consider our former military program. But, as you can see, this thread deals with very few facts and a lot of opinions and beliefs.

[lekatt]

I didn’t see anything in the current replies that is new.

I did read the John Edwards take on Larry King. He did a commendable job, I did learn how he sees the spirit world which is a bit different than I. I think James Van Praagh is the best, he actually sees the “dead” people. I and John read on the energy and flashes of symbols we see. I am not a good reader, takes a lot of time and practice. No, what I said here doesn’t mean John is not a good reader.

Randi has repeatedly refused to accept third party testing, observation or anything else. The psychics have been calling him out for some time now, offering a million dollars and all kinds of incentives, to no avail. Now why would this be? The figures you are quoting are his figures, no independent varification, no nothing. This is not acceptable as a way to find truth.

I see some fishtailling on the “let’s do a cold reading” idea, I think it is beginning to become apparent how the unreliable this method really is.

Over all, on this thread, I think we have made clear skeptics have no right to call psychics names, because they have no proof of anything the psychics are doing wrong.

Oh, yes, readings are certainly not all questions. What psychics see are many spiritual entities standing close to the person being read. If the person wants to talk to Aunt Helen, the psychic will try to determine if Aunt Helen is there, or just go on trying to translate the messages he gets from the others. One of them may be showing a lamp, the psychic asks if the lamp means anything to the person being read and goes from there. Aunt Helen may or may not be in attendance. Psychics read what they see, they can’t read anything else. Sometimes psychics just make statements about what they see if they are sure it pertains to the person. Psychics interpret symbols, sometimes they interpret them wrong, it happens, but they still see them.

There is a popular practice game among psychics for learning the skill. No more than 10 people, preferablely less. Each person brings to the table a small object which is placed in a box.
This object is something the person knows the history, origin and other information about. The putting in the box is done without the knowledge of the others.

The box is passed around and each person draws one, then in order each one tells what they feel about the item. The one who owns the item then tells the reader how close they came to the truth. There are techniques for clearing the mind and other methods, but overall it is a fun game.

I can still remember the first time I got a solid hit. I had drawn a quartz crystal from the box. Flashing through my mind was a picture on a bow and arrow laying on a cross. I interpreted it as an Indian graveyard, and behold the stone was found in an Indian graveyard. Psychics are honest with each other, and don’t hedge one way or the other. It is part of the training, you add nothing to what you see, that is the code.

Cold readings are skeptical BS.

Love
Leroy

[DocCathode]

*Originally posted by lekatt *
**Over all, on this thread, I think we have made clear skeptics have no right to call psychics names, because they have no proof of anything the psychics are doing wrong.

**
I see you’re ignoring my posts again. How shocking. As usual, I’ve checked and rechecked my equipment and data. Neither Edward or Praagh has any psychic ability.

**
I can still remember the first time I got a solid hit. I had drawn a quartz crystal from the box. Flashing through my mind was a picture on a bow and arrow laying on a cross. I interpreted it as an Indian graveyard, and behold the stone was found in an Indian graveyard. Psychics are honest with each other, and don’t hedge one way or the other. It is part of the training, you add nothing to what you see, that is the code.
**

It may interest othe posters to know that Lekatt’s Pseudotheizine poisoning has gotten much, much worse since I first began monitoring it. Over the two days I could not access the SDMB, it became irreversible(This may have been coincidince.). Previously, a rigorous attempt to question his beliefs and to open his mind to wonder could have removed the Pseudotheizine from his system. With the toxins gone, Lekatt had a chance at experiencing real psychic abilities instead of hallucinations.

 Now, he never will. His blind and stubborn clinging to lies and frauds, his hatred and bigotry, have actually spread and intensified the poison. His MetaConscious mind is gone. The Pseudotheizine has eaten it away, like a rat sucking the incubating chick from an egg.

I thus ask my fellow Dopers to leave Lekatt his illusions, lies, and false beliefs. They are all he shall ever have. The ability to even see real pyshcic power is beyond him.

    I'm sorry Lekatt, I've failed you.

[Phoenix_Dragon]

*Originally posted by lekatt *
Randi has repeatedly refused to accept third party testing, observation or anything else. The psychics have been calling him out for some time now, offering a million dollars and all kinds of incentives, to no avail. Now why would this be? The figures you are quoting are his figures, no independent varification, no nothing. This is not acceptable as a way to find truth.

What “figures” are we quoting? And what testing do you propose be done on him? Quite frankly, I’m going to call bullshit on this one. Do you even have any ideas for what to test? And saying he refuses to have third-party observation is a flat-out LIE. Most of the tests he’s done, including all the ones in this thread, if I’m not mistaken, are done infront of an audience, specifically TO have third-party witnesses.

Over all, on this thread, I think we have made clear skeptics have no right to call psychics names, because they have no proof of anything the psychics are doing wrong.

Partially right; We have no evidence that all psychics are wrong. We do have evidence that some psychics do not have the abilities they claim to have, because they can not perform them anywhere near reliably in a controlled environment. We also do not have any evidence of psychics being real. In fact, we have the only avowed psychic that we can easily converse with, you, avoiding every single possible way of showing his abilities exist, and instead showing a rather hypocritical nature of judging psychic versus skeptic “readings,” and avoiding answering any questions. Makes it a pretty safe conclusion to not trust psychics to be true.

If you’re a psychic, prove it; Do a reading on me. You keep avoiding what would be a very simple opportunity if you had any ability.

[PatriotX]

I can’t believe that no one noticed that the Legion of Merit award is a"decoration created specifically as an award for citizens of other nations" and that Joe McMoneagle was born in Miami, Florida, January 10, 1946 and therefore not eligible to receive said award.

[DocCathode]

*Originally posted by Phoenix Dragon *
[BIf you’re a psychic, prove it; Do a reading on me. You keep avoiding what would be a very simple opportunity if you had any ability. **

Okay, like many Dopers you’re MCM is partially actuallized. It may already be communicating with your conscious mind. An analysis of your NCCF, reveals that you are a potential DreamTalker. The DreamTalkers utilize many principles of Etheric Science, but think and act in terms of shamanic magic. Even you screen name is an indication of the connection to the Earth, ancient magic, and mythic symbols which you feel.

A more thorough analysis requires me to focus and think on a level I just can’t function on at this time. I’ve got a headache. I’m out of diet Dew. And this week I failed a fellow human being.

[PatriotX]

DocCathode,
You are one of my new heoes.
What did you do to the Goddess when you found her?

[DocCathode]

*Originally posted by SimonX *
**DocCathode,
You are one of my new heoes.
What did you do to the Goddess when you found her? **

I’m confused. Is that a religious question or are asking about my many ‘Grace Jones Is Hot!’ posts?

[PatriotX]

*Originally posted by DocCathode *
**I’m confused. Is that a religious question or are asking about my many ‘Grace Jones Is Hot!’ posts? **

I don’t think there’s much difference.

[GOM]

*Originally posted by SimonX *
**I can’t believe that no one noticed that the Legion of Merit award is a"decoration created specifically as an award for citizens of other nations" and that Joe McMoneagle was born in Miami, Florida, January 10, 1946 and therefore not eligible to receive said award. **

Maybe. Maybe not.

Quote:

"Purpose: Awarded to a member (normally Commanding Officer) of the armed forces of the United States who distinguishes themselves by exceptionally meritorious conduct in performing outstanding service.

Eligibility Criteria: The Legion of Merit will normally be awarded to officers in lesser commands at sea or principle commands on shore who have performed such exceptionally meritorious duty, clearly above that normally expected, which has contributed materially to the success of the command or project. However, this should not be interpreted to preclude the award of the Legion of Merit to any individual, regardless of grade or rate, whose act or services meet the requirements. When the degree of achievement or service rendered, although meritorious, is not sufficient to award the Legion of Merit, the Meritorious Service Medal should be considered.

[Mr.Miskatonic]

*Originally posted by lekatt *
Randi has repeatedly refused to accept third party testing, observation or anything else.

That is a complete and utter lie. It has been demonstrated as such several times in this thread alone.

The psychics have been calling him out for some time now,

No, they haven’t. The only time they try is when they want to play by their rules and Randi’s money.

offering a million dollars and all kinds of incentives, to no avail.

THe only million dollars I’ve seen is Zammit’s. It is a bogus offer, as has been demosntrated several times on this thread alone.

Now why would this be?

It is not.

The figures you are quoting are his figures, no independent varification, no nothing. This is not acceptable as a way to find truth.

You have not even looked at what has been quoted. Independent verification has been done for the Randi challenge on many occasions. This a lie. You repeat it a lot. That will not make it true.

[Princhester]

I find this bit particularly funny.

*Originally posted by Super Gnat *
**The point is that of those ten hits, chances are at least some of them will apply to most people. Example (I’m cribbing many of these):

1. Your parents/grandparents or some of their siblings were older when they died.
2. Someone in your family has died of cancer (even if you specifically don’t know of anyone, the vast majority of people do)
3. Someone in your family had breathing problems before they died.
4. Someone in your family wore a uniform at some point in their lives.
5. Someone in your family has been in a car accident.
6. Someone in your family has held a grudge against someone else in your family at some point in time.
7. Someone in your family has the letter ‘B’ somewhere in their name.
8. Someone in your family has had high blood pressure at some point in their lives.
9. Someone who loved you is dead now.
10. Some female in your family left behind a jewelry box.

I don’t know if everyone here can match those 10 for 10, but most people match at least a few of them. Like the horoscopes in the newspaper, they are so broad as to be meaningless.

(my rating for this cold reading: 9 at least. Probably 10, but I don’t know about the jewelry box thing.)
**

Which Lekatt quoted, saying:

*Originally posted by lekatt *
**You have got to be kidding, if you are offering this as a reading a psychic might do. They would be laughed out of the theatre.

Your father had two legs, did I get a hit. **

Let’s run through Super Gnat’s list, using the Edward and Altea transcripts linked above:

1. Your parents/grandparents or some of their siblings were older when they died.

EDWARD: Yes, there is. Somebody on that side of the family, older female, recently passed or connected to the male in your life.

2. Someone in your family has died of cancer (even if you specifically don’t know of anyone, the vast majority of people do)

EDWARD: Because they’re telling me it’s the other side of the family. There is connection to either him having a son with him, or him having a younger male like a grandson also there, and they’re telling me acknowledge the cancer to the chest. I don’t know if somebody passed from lung cancer? But there’s cancer all in here, understand that?

3. Someone in your family had breathing problems before they died.

ALTEA: I don’t know if this your father that I’m connecting with, that is the first thing I have to say. I never know who it’s going to be. OK? … I know that he had some problems with his chest and with his breathing.

4. Someone in your family wore a uniform at some point in their lives.

ALTEA: No, and I don’t know if what I’m going to say means anything to her either. But I just – as I’m just thinking to myself, I can’t really see anyone or hear anything, I have caught a glimpse of a man standing slightly to my right and in front of me wearing – actually wearing a uniform.

5. Someone in your family has been in a car accident.

6. Someone in your family has held a grudge against someone else in your family at some point in time.

EDWARD: Why is there a split family? Is there a split connection there?

7. Someone in your family has the letter ‘B’ somewhere in their name.

EDWARD: Yes, you do. There is a C or a K connection directly to you or to this family, from what they are telling me. So it either means it’s who they are – put your sister on hold and think about your family. There is some type of C or K connection…

8. Someone in your family has had high blood pressure at some point in their lives.

9. Someone who loved you is dead now.

Lekatt:There are all levels of skill in psychics. The ones being bashed in this thread read the deceased loves ones for those who still have issues with them. James and John provide closure for these people and help them get through the grief process. They are very good at it. It is a talent and service no one else can offer them. The show is full of love and caring, a great teaching platform for the emotions.

10. Some female in your family left behind a jewelry box.

I don’t know if you have one of the sister’s rings, but there’s a connection to a piece of jewelry that’s passed down.

So I can locate eight out of ten of the “cold reading” questions Super Gnat posed actually being used by so called psychics merely by referring to two available transcripts linked off this thread. Yet Lekatt says that anyone asking such questions would be laughed out of the theatre.

One can only conclude that Lekatt has never actually seen such people performing and has not read the transcripts cited.

I know that sounds outrageous, but there is no other conclusion available to me without accusing Lekatt of mental illness, which I wouldn’t do, despite him calling me and others fakes and liars.

[Czarcasm]

lekatt, I am asking you to stop doing two things.

1. Stop misrepresenting the James Randi Challenge. If you have a claim to make about it, provide a link from his site that supports your statement.
2. Do not misrepresent what other posters have said in this or any other thread. If you have an accusation, provide a link or direct quote that supports your statement.

Czarcasm

[PatriotX]

Lekatt,
Are you for real?
Or are you trolling these poor people?
It’s hard to believe that you believe some of the self-contradictory things you’ve written. But maybe I’m just naive.

[lekatt]

*Originally posted by Czarcasm *
**lekatt, I am asking you to stop doing two things.

1. Stop misrepresenting the James Randi Challenge. If you have a claim to make about it, provide a link from his site that supports your statement.
2. Do not misrepresent what other posters have said in this or any other thread. If you have an accusation, provide a link or direct quote that supports your statement.

Czarcasm **

Those have been provided many times. Because you disagree with them, I suppose they are wrong. Dear Mr. Mod, you freely allow Mod Doc to say anything about me, no matter how foolish and “made-up” it is. So why don’t you just lock the thread, there is no fairness here either.

Love
Leroy

[E-Sabbath]

*Originally posted by DocCathode *
**I’m confused. Is that a religious question or are asking about my many ‘Grace Jones Is Hot!’ posts? **

Doc operates off a slightly different paradigm than that, SimonX.

Me, I rolled four six sided dice, picking the highest three, six times. Then I shrugged and gave her five bucks, and wandered off to play the ponies.

Doc, as I’m sure you’re aware, is a fully actualized being with a means of manipulating the energy field that surrounds and permeates all existance and all beings through Science!

The gusts of steam, large gears, electrodes, Jacob’s Ladders, and oh my god the pain the pain the pain is just a bonus.

[DocCathode]

*Originally posted by lekatt *
**Those have been provided many times. Because you disagree with them, I suppose they are wrong. Dear Mr. Mod, you freely allow Mod Doc to say anything about me, no matter how foolish and “made-up” it is. So why don’t you just lock the thread, there is no fairness here either.

Love
Leroy **

First, you tell me that my name is David.

Now, you inform me that I am a moderator.

Check the status under my name.

I offer Lekatt’s two misses as further proof that he has no psychic ability