Hey Lekatt!
Since you have returned to the thread, will you now answer my question? It’s posted here originally but your reply here avoided the issue completely.
My reply here restated the question.
Please answer it, you’ve had plenty of time to think about it.
You still fail to see the point. For argument’s sake, fine cold reading doesn’t exist.
That does not mean psychics are exhibiting preternatural abilities!
Psychics have not shown any proof that they are doing what they claim to be doing. So if you won’t accept cold reading, how about lucky guesses?
There is a rich history of mediums and psychics, long recognized as genuine by the spiritualist community, confessing that they had always cheated–i.e., used non-occult means to gather information about their clients. They haven’t always waited to be exposed by others, but in many cases have come forward themselves. They have not required skeptics to “slander” them, using the term brought up here for some reason, but have done it themselves. The problem here with this evidence is that, for a true believer, any “psychic” or “medium” who says he or she used tricks, or simply non-occult sources of information, is thereby revealed not to be a psychic or medium after all. Convenient, because this protects the original claim that (true) psychics (which class now does not include the exposed person) do not use cold or hot reading. But it has also been common for believers to themselves distinguish frauds from true mediums. One practical problem has been, however, that compiling the various lists, one might say, from different believers, of which mediums are obvious or notorious frauds and which ones are true, has often shown the same names appearing on both sides of the column. The short list of mediums that believers have more or less agreed on as being genuine have often been tested and have repeatedly been shown to be unable under test conditions to produce information or psychic effects that they could not have obtained or performed in other ways–specifically, in ways that “confessed” mediums have said they used in very similar situations. If all this doesn’t “prove” to a believer that mediums and psychics use non-occult means to gather their information and to produce their “phenomena,” it would seem to me that it must at least make him or her mighty uncomfortable.
So, if I understand your position correctly, in the unlikely scenario that he solves one case your answer is that he cheated and the Japanese police are too stupid to catch him cheating?
Please furnish cites on what you say here, this is not anything I have ever read, so show us the proof.
Lekatt
Please point to the posts in which you believe your words were misquoted. You have made the charge several times; perhaps you should put up or shut up.
I did that in the posts, all you have to do is read them.
No, I’m saying that, since you continue to make these charges, it is your responsbility to at least provide the references to support them. If you are unwilling to take the time to look them up and provide the post numbers, why should anyone take your claims seriously?
Papermache Prince,
Why do you take his claims seriously?
And it doesn’t mean they’re not. Near death experiences have proven that consciousness lives on after the death of the body. Even a scanning of NDE literature will show that. Yes, the Pam Reynolds surgery nails it down hard to all but the closed minded.
So, the truth is Psychics do talk to “dead” people and NDEers do see and talk to “dead” people. Psychics are doing exactly what they claim to do.
Some of the proof, if you really care, is watching them talk to “dead” people as they tell their “live” loved ones where things can be found. I don’t have a cite, now, but will try to save the next one I see, it is common.
Love
Leroy
You may be wondering just how long Lekatt was clinically dead. What caused him to flatline? What did his doctors have to say?
The exciting truth is…
He went to bed at home. No code blue at the hospital. No ambulance crew restarting his heart. He went to sleep and had an experience he “knew” was not a dream but an NDE.
No Misquote Here
Lekatt, you can’t spell NDE without ND
Doc
ROFLOL!
You must truly be a warrior to have waded through the schlock.
I didn’t think Lekatt could’ve become more irrelevant. Boy was I wrong. ThanX Lekatt, for that. I guess his NDE is kind of like his Navy experience he told us about.
When was Lekatt in the Navy? Check his bio to find out
The operator of this NDE website, (Lekatt), has probably misquoted Lekatt and twisted his words.
Yeah, I remember that. I think someone brought up sometime in that NDE thread he started up. That, or he linked to it. And I thought that thread was a train wreck…
Oooh, you were doing so good with that first sentance. Unfortunatly, no, NDEs have proven nothing. Nor have NDEs even been proven. People wake up from being unconcious, having just “experienced” talking with some big white figure that talked to them, and filled them with a calm feeling. Just this morning (Err… afternoon) I woke up from being unconcious, having just “experienced” jumping through a supermarket loaded with explosive laser sensors (And blowing myself up), building a few soldiers, and infiltrating an abandoned nuclear power plant to take out a bunch of malformed people wearing medieval chain-mail and waving Kalashnikovs around, by shooting them with paintball guns loaded with poison. There is no indication that the former experience is any different than the later in terms of formation.
The Pam Reynolds surgery proves nothing. Maybe if we had heard her exact claims before she had any contact with other people, or had made the claims and had them discussed, then it might be closer to usefull, but still not proof in itself.
“Proven”? So being “closed minded” somehow effects the evidence? Shouldn’t the evidence be able to stand on it’s own? Why do you need an open mind? Darwin doesn’t ask for an open mind when presenting evolution, Einstein didn’t ask for an open mind. Both of them presented evidence.
You should add “In the minds of the believers” because clearly psychics aren’t doing anything the average person can’t do. Now if they got hits in the range of 90-100% then that would be something, but they don’t so it shows that psychic phenomenon is nothing special.
“If you really care”? Is that an appeal to emotion? I’m curious, do I have to truly believe that these people can talk to the dead, or will it not work if I doubt them? I would think that the ability to “pove” phenomenon would be extremely easy for a psychic. Why aren’t psychics validated in any scientific journal?
Oh yeah… RE: GOM
Ed Dames has a bit of a history of being inacurate on his predictions. Just look at the list of predictions he had for 1998, in which he called for: An epidemic spread of fungus killing ravaging the world, coming from a cylindrical object that crashes in Africa, North Korea nukes South Korea by the end of winter that year, a nuclear reactor in northern Spain is used as a weapon, president Clinton would not make it to the end of the year, there would be reports of canibalism coming from eastern europe due to food shortages, a bigger/stronger would appear in midwest US and is strong enough that it rips people appart, Israel and PLO go to open war, a global economic collapse in late spring/early summer of that year, an epidemic spread of diseases that would ravage the world and so virulent that the CDC wouldn’t be able to keep up with all the new diseases, a solar flare or coronal mass ejection would hit earth, blinding anyone who saw it, and followed up in 99 by a “killer flare” that would kill off a good amount (Or all) of the earth’s population, and that Mammoth Mountain would be the next volcano to erupt in North America. None happened.
Of his “hits” for that year, he had guessed correctly that deaths of children by disease would be up, and that the US would have some crops damaged or destroyed by weather, driving up food prices. Hardly impressive, considering the number of misses.
Considering the mere fact that we’re all still alive, I don’t consider his accuracy to be all that great…
For fun, I found a page that compares 7 psychic’s predictions for events occuring durring one year (1998), and an eighth “controll” set of predictions by a non-psychic. Guess who won… 
The predictions
The score
This may have been posed before, I can’t remember and I’m not quite masochistic enough to slog through all this again, heh.
Let’s assume for a moment that what psychics do is real. If a psychic’s hit rate is no better than a skilled cold reader’s hit rate, is it really relevent whether or not they’re talking to the dead? I mean, magicians can do exactly the same thing, sometimes even better, without the need to involve those silly spirits, right? Assuming the person receiving the reading isn’t aware they’re being duped don’t they receive the same alleged “benefits” (peace of mind, etc) from a skilled cold reader than from someone who claims to be a psychic?
Peace,
~mixie
That’s a good point! Why go to a “psychic” if my magician friend Ralph is just as good. I mean, at least with Ralph, you get a magic show beforehand.
Yeah…
He’s still sticking with that story. He just mentioned it again within the past few days. He claims his out is that remote viewing is not very accurate on timing. He claims NK will indeed nuke SK (along with some US forces). I sure hope he’s wrong, but this prediction is looking closer and closer to happening. That idiot in the North is crazy.
certainly not very cinvincing sort of prediction.
That’s for sure! But he’s sticking with it, and it could yet prove to be correct. His exact prediction, IIRC, was that North Korea would be the** next country to use an A-bomb in anger**. That excludes the tests that Pakistan and India conducted.