Contact with the Great Beyond--Psychics like Praagh

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

No, they are not the only ones in the deception business. But the psychic industry is, without exception, an industry built only on deception. You do understand, don’t you **GOM[/b[, that not one instance of genuine psychic phenomenon has ever been proven under laboratory conditions?

[GOM]

*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic *
**GOM, All you have to do is scroll up a little bit and look at David B’s links on the government use of psychics. **

I looked at all the links. With all due respect, David B’s opinion about psychics does not constitute proof of cataclysmic failure by our government team. That’s what you seem to have implied.

FWIW, I do agree with him here:
http://www.teemings.com/issue08/psychic.html
For the record, I am not in favor of psychics. Just in case anyone misunderstands. Obviously there is some fraudulent behavior in this field. But beyond that, I think they are dangerous because they dabble in the spiritual world. That is where some of the deception comes in…

I realize that the objections here at Straight Dope come primarily from the frustration over how to scientifically test the spiritual realm.

[RedFury]

I think they are dangerous because they dabble in the spiritual world

Besides the fact that that takes us back to square one, what do you mean by “dangerous”? If it’s as in “ripping people off” I’d agree. And wouldn’t you agree that the people they rip off are the ones that already believe in the “spiritual world”?

I realize that the objections here at Straight Dope come primarily from the frustration over how to scientifically test the spiritual realm

Who’s frustrated? I think Randi and company have done a wonderful job unsmasking most quacks. And once again, not one scintilla of evidence has come forth to support any of their claims.

Could it be that you are trying really hard to convince yourself otherwise? I can see how that would be frustrating.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

Gom
For the record, I am not in favor of psychics. Just in case anyone misunderstands. Obviously there is some fraudulent behavior in this field. But beyond that, I think they are dangerous because they dabble in the spiritual world. That is where some of the deception comes in…

I realize that the objections here at Straight Dope come primarily from the frustration over how to scientifically test the spiritual realm.

1.) What, exactly, is the “spiritual realm?”
2.) Do you have any evidence at all that it exists?

[Patty_O_Furniture]

I’ll field that one.

It’s something that can only be perceived or experienced on an intimate, personal level. It can’t be verifiably measured, tested or analyzed in any way. It’s ethereal and intangible, insofar as our known senses are concerned.

Maybe that’s all we’ve been missing; a really good definition. Feel free to tweak where necessary.

[David_B]

GOM said:

Obviously there is some fraudulent behavior in this field.

Yeah, and there is some water in the ocean…

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

It’s something that can only be perceived or experienced on an intimate, personal level. It can’t be verifiably measured, tested or analyzed in any way. It’s ethereal and intangible, insofar as our known senses are concerned.

there’s another word for this kind of phenomena. It’s called imaginary.

[RedFury]

*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic *
**1.) What, exactly, is the “spiritual realm?”
2.) Do you have any evidence at all that it exists? **

Allow me to take a WAG.

1-Anything that can’t/won’t be scientifically tested. Inmaterial entities such as the soul are said to inhabit and thrive in this realm.

2-But of course. However, you need to read #1 again.

Repeat ad-infinitum. Refrain from pulling hair out of follicles.

[stpauler]

*Originally posted by Attrayant *
**I’ll field that one.

It’s something that can only be perceived or experienced on an intimate, personal level. It can’t be verifiably measured, tested or analyzed in any way. It’s ethereal and intangible, insofar as our known senses are concerned.

Maybe that’s all we’ve been missing; a really good definition. Feel free to tweak where necessary. **

That has got to be the best definition because it lends itself to ignorance of any truth searching which, imho, would be the only defense to believing this jazz.

and now for your amusement, a photoshopped hallmark card courtest of fark.com contest

[lekatt]

*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic *
**No, they are not the only ones in the deception business. But the psychic industry is, without exception, an industry built only on deception. You do understand, don’t you **GOM[/b[, that not one instance of genuine psychic phenomenon has ever been proven under laboratory conditions? **

Just a small question:

Why are not the lab trials at

http://www.princeton.edu/~pear/2.html

not considered evidence of human psychic ability.

[Princhester]

*Originally posted by lekatt *
In your example, I would not expect you to prove God told you I should give you money, nor would I try to prove you wrong. I would just simply say no to God.

So you would accept that God had said that you were to give the million, you just wouldn’t obey?

OK then. I am a psychic. God has told me that Edwards is a fraud.

Do you believe me? Why not?

[stpauler]

*Originally posted by lekatt *
**Just a small question:

Why are not the lab trials at

http://www.princeton.edu/~pear/2.html

not considered evidence of human psychic ability. **

Hmm, you wanna pony up the dough for the special software for Cecil or one of us to test this or send it to good ol’ Randi?
If this is so good, maybe they should try shareware first.
http://www.skepdic.com/pear.html

The PEAR people are so convinced of the breakthrough nature of their work that they have incorporated as Mindsong Inc. They claim their corporation “is developing a range of breakthrough products and research tools based on a provocative new technology – proprietary microelectronics which are responsive to the inner states of living systems.” One of their breakthrough products is some software for $55.95 “that allows you to influence, with your mind, which of two images will be displayed on your computer screen.” They also sell a device for $425 that lets you do your own testing of mental influence of randomized outputs. They are also working on a kind of biofeedback device. Yawn.

[Princhester]

*Originally posted by lekatt *
Please give the people who get readings some credit for having brains. They know when they are being fooled. When the psychic is never right, or when they have been cold read.

I have seen someone being cold read. A person with at least two degrees in science subjects and honours degrees at that. And they did not recognise it for a second. It was only when I insisted that we go over the whole reading word by word that they finally had to concede that everything that they had been “told” by the psychic, they had in fact told to the psychic.

You say that psychics would love the opportunity to do a proper reading on us with no background knowledge and so on. James Randi has been practically begging the high profile psychics to do this for years. When’s it going to happen, given how much your beloved psychic friends would love the opportunity?

[lekatt]

*Originally posted by Princhester *
**So you would accept that God had said that you were to give the million, you just wouldn’t obey?

OK then. I am a psychic. God has told me that Edwards is a fraud.

Do you believe me? Why not? **

I would just say no to God again.

[lekatt]

*Originally posted by Princhester *
**So you would accept that God had said that you were to give the million, you just wouldn’t obey?

OK then. I am a psychic. God has told me that Edwards is a fraud.

Do you believe me? Why not? **

I would just say no to God again.

[lekatt]

*Originally posted by stpauler *
**Hmm, you wanna pony up the dough for the special software for Cecil or one of us to test this or send it to good ol’ Randi?
If this is so good, maybe they should try shareware first.
The Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research (PEAR) - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com **

Was expecting either yes or no.

[Princhester]

I’m confused. As I understand it, you can say no to a question, but how can you say no to a statement?

[lekatt]

*Originally posted by Princhester *
**I have seen someone being cold read. A person with at least two degrees in science subjects and honours degrees at that. And they did not recognise it for a second. It was only when I insisted that we go over the whole reading word by word that they finally had to concede that everything that they had been “told” by the psychic, they had in fact told to the psychic.

You say that psychics would love the opportunity to do a proper reading on us with no background knowledge and so on. James Randi has been practically begging the high profile psychics to do this for years. When’s it going to happen, given how much your beloved psychic friends would love the opportunity? **

You have one example, James may give a hundred readings a day.

No psychic will challenge Randi, he no play fair.

[Mr.Miskatonic]

*Originally posted by lekatt *
**
No psychic will challenge Randi, he no play fair. **

Oftain said, never proven.

[Mr.Miskatonic]

*Originally posted by lekatt *
**Was expecting either yes or no. **

PEAR’s work is not evidence of much. At best they are finding tiny anomolies in odd ‘data’ collected by means not immune to experimental faults.

They also have to be the ones to take the challenge. Randi can offer, but he can’t force it on people.