ChiefScott:
Hang on…let me write that down…
Five, that’s why this board is called ‘The Straight Dope.’ Where else are you going to find juicy information like that?
I think you’re right. More cloud cover means more reflection of sunlight and less heating of the Earth. On the other hand, more water vapor and carbon dioxide (combustion by-products of the jet engines) in the contrails means more greenhouse gases in the atmosphere. Which would win out? But perhaps this was not Cecil’s line of argument.
First, night is not dark. Night is the absence of daylight.
On a more reasonable note – The reason contrails cross in the sky is that two aircraft flying perpendicular to each other cross flight paths over a radio navigation point located on the ground. That makes an X.
Contrails are not caused just by jets. Propeller driven bombers flying over Germany during WWII also caused them. My neighbors who survived the daylight bombing attacks will attest to it.
And please remember that the same government that denies that Agent Orange is harmful to Vietnam Veterans issues denials on contrails.
GEEZ! You engage in ONE LOUSY COVERUP and it’s, like, nobody believes you anymore!
Seriously, I’m not impressed with the credibility of the US government, but I don’t think we can start to use their denials as positive evidence for something.
This is precisely why I think the government, and the military in particular, needs to own up to a consistent set of ethics on what can and can’t be kept secret. In any particular case, it’s probably easy for individuals to justify secrecy based on some cost/benefit analysis. But their estimates of the costs probably don’t include the larger price of the loss of credibility (and thus leadership and influence) in other areas.
Surprise Everybody!!!
Airplanes dump fuel (or “jettison” is more correct). The FAA even has extensive regulations on the configuration of jettisoning systems (Special Federal Aviation Regulation No. 13 - Sec. 25.1001 Fuel jettisoning system). Anybody working in the field knows it, they just don’t talk about it. Apparently, some congressmen are upset about it and want an investigation http://www.house.gov/gilchrest/bwi.htm.
And some people near Kelly AFB were upset about it and got their investigation http://atsdr1.atsdr.cdc.gov/HAC/PHA/kelly/kel_toc.html
Why is everyone so surprised about getting dumped on.
By the way for PUNdit and Phobos, here’s a link to an explanation of how cloudcover contributes to global warming. When Cecil referred to “local” warming, I think he was meaning on a global scale. For example, a local area warming on the globe, could the midwestern US.
Look, only ONE person here has addressed the real topic.
Cecil got it wrong. No one believes that normal jet contrails cause illnesses – it’s the deliberately sprayed CHEMtrails that have people up in arms.
Here’s a site discussing that:
Spitzoli,
The pictures at the web sites are of normal contrails. And the text of the web sites shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of them. Here’s an example paragraph from the web site you posted a link to:
But normal contrails often don’t dissipate soon after a jet’s passage. The ones I’ve seen typically stay around for a long time. And the pictures with enough resolution clearly show the trails coming from the jets’ engines, not the wingtips. If they have pics of trails from wingtips, I’d like to see them.
Also, their description of problems is not credible. If the trails stay up high in the sky, then why would people on the ground get sick? You’d think that a “chemtrail” would need to fall to the ground to have any effect on people. There are so many holes in their theories that it seems to me no person with any rational abilities could fall for them.
There are two questions that must be answered.
Question 1)Why would the Government do this?
Answer: To reduce the projected Federal budget surplus.
Question 2)How will this reduce the Federal budget surplus?
Answer: Spray toxic chemicals on the taxpaying public, so they get sick and can’t work (reducing income tax revenues).
Spend the remaining tax dollars subsidizing the care of the sick populace through Medicare and Medicaid.
Of course, to carry out this insidious plan, the Government would spray highly visible chemicals in broad daylight, causing questions to be raised by the general public. Thereby forcing more tax dollars to be spent investigating the allegations against the Government.
Not to mention the millions spent building the fleet of toxic chemical delivery aircraft at Area 51.
Sometimes the simplest explanation is the best.
One clarification: As I understand it, Agent Orange itself isn’t directly harmful to humans. The problem is with dioxin, a by-product of Agent Orange production, which is often found as a contaminant in AO, and which is the worst chemical carcinogen known to Man. Most of my knowledge of this subject comes from research I did for a report on dioxin way back in high school chem, seven years ago, so feel free to correct me.
All this conspiracy about contrails/chemtrails is the result of “a little knowledge is dangerous” in my books.
Consider the following gem from an (allegedly) intelligent friend who happened to be a realtor here in Vancouver…
The client would not purchase a certain house because it was under the approach/departure path at the city’s international airport. This despite the fact that thousands of other people in this city live there. The client’s reason was that aircraft dump fuel in massive quantities during the final approach to landing and that said fuel would be a hazard to him if he ventured outdoors. The realtor friend contacted me (as I am a pilot by profession) if this could be true.
Of course not, for many reasons, including:
extra fuel does not affect the landing, fuel transfer/dumping will likely affect the aircraft’s center of gravity during the landing manoever, fuel is darn expensive to waste, and can you imagine the impressive fireball as the fuel torches, etc.
Similarly, the local authorities were proposing to spray insecticide from low-flying aircraft over an urban area in order to eradicate a harmful moth that was devouring foliage and spreading at an alarming rate. The neighbourhood doomsayers threatened to protest by launching thousands of helium balloons as the aircraft approached on its spray run. The idea that an out-of-control aircraft could crash into a school or public building because of their actions I guess was never considered.
Where do the teeming millions get these insane ideas?
Back in the 50’s we would detect nuclear particles by cooling alcohol vapor to the point that any energetic particle passing throught the chamber holding the alcohol vapor would form a contrail and we could photograph the interesting things. Any form of energy in an unstable medium is likely to do the same, whether a jet or prop plane, or a particle. On a similiar device, Don Glaser won the Nobel Prize for the same principle called the bubble chamber.
You can roughly gauge the barometer by the contrails during the daylight. High pressure tends to squeeze out a single trail, lower pressure may allow an expansion across the entire sky.
I like the African Bushman’s observation that when he heard a god roaring overhead and saw a trailing vapor, he would know the god ate something the night before that didn’t agree with it.
Far be it for me to say that Cecil hasn’t reserched his subject thoroughly, but a good summary of both the lunatics point of view and the view of the all powerful Military-Industrial complex was printed just a few months ago in the FORTEAN TIMES (issue 124).
It is available at:
OK, I pretty much thought that the chemttrail people were nuts. And then I ran across the info below. I haven’t done any fact checking, but damn! Spraying acid into the air!
http://www.f-22raptor.com/st_steal.htm
for the frames link
http://www.f-22raptor.com/
relevant info:
3.6 Visual detection reduction
3.6.1 Hiding smoke contrails (jet wake)
Reducing smoke in the exhaust is accomplished by improving the
efficiency of the combustion chambers. Getting rid of
contrails - that distinct white line in the sky caused by high flying
jets - is a harder task.
Tests have been done using exotic chemicals to be inserted into the
engine outlet gases to modify infrared signature as
well as to force water molecules in the exhaust plume to break up into
much finer particles, thus reduce or even
eliminate contrails. One of the chemical used for this was
chloro-fluoro-sulphonic acid. Several other acids were tested
too, but the result was that the chemicals were too corrosive and the
system was waved.
Yeah, next thing you know, they’ll be spraying hydroxic acid into the air! Dangerous stuff… Exact figures aren’t available, but it’s believed that more folks have died from inhalation of hydroxic acid than all other laboratory chemicals combined.
Next thing you know they’ll be spraying forest fires from the air with dihydrogen oxide to try and put them out.
I walked into my bathroom and found a baby gecko trapped in a glob on the sink. I have been following this chemtrail thing so I knew right away what was happening.
My wife bought a bunch of adult geckos last year and turned them loose to combat the government altered roaches. They call them palmetto bugs but everyone down here knows that it was a government experiment gone bad that produced these giant roaches that our normal lizards are afraid of.
I have steeled myself against this eventuality for years. I keep a chain and padlock and have downloaded every formula I could find for home made explosives. It was obvious I needed to make a human bomb of myself and chain myself to a federal building so I could tell the world what our government is doing.
I was hardly started when my wife came to my workshop to announce that she had found the source of the glob. My grandson has taken to spiking his hair and got the spike stuff all over the bathroom.
The problem is worse than I had imagined. Private firms are collecting the glob stuff that is falling out from the chemtrails and selling it to innocent children to spike their hair. Private industry has joined with our government to bring harm and misery to us all. Now that big business has joined the plot I feel helpless. Anyone need a chain and padlock?
Did anyone else get this email? It was forwarded to me by a Mike Robbins [shiningnight@webtv.net], originally from EyesBred1@aol.com:
Nobody has to believe me if they don’t want to but I’m tellin ya, Planes are deliberatly making contrails. It’s not an accident and it doesn’t just happen. I’ve lived near a major airport for over 34 years now and yes i’ve seen
regular contrails and that ain’t what is bugging me and these other folks. I first heard about these things about 2 years ago. A friend of mine was telling me about it. His theory was it was something the government was
spraying to make us sick. Well, to tell you the truth I thought his odds of being even close to right was about zero but I didn’t just totally dismiss it
either. Who am I to tell him what he’s seen ? I think if one man see’s a UFO and the other tries to tell him he didn’t when he wasn’t even there, He’s the
idiot ! How does he know what the other saw. UFO is UNIDENTIFIED flying object. Could of been anything but to the observer it was unidentfiable. so what. ( And no, Niether me nor him claim to have ever seen a UFO ) I thought he must just be seeing regular planes and regular contrails. I wasn’t sure but I wasn’t going to argue over it since I hadn’t been there when he seen them.
This went on for almost a year. I work nights and I’m rarely up during the daytime. One rare morning I was up and went outside and much to my suprise guess what was in the sky… A plane was just finishing making a contrail and was turning around to make the next one. It started in one spot right where he wanted it to then he swung around and made another right next to it. And to top it off while he was doing this another made an X. A perfect X next to
the two perpendicularlines forming a XII in the sky which spread out and formed cloud cover. within an hour and a 1/2 the whole sky was cloudy. this was shocking enough but for that whole week and most almost clear days since the same thing has happened. I called the media and they thought I
was nuts. The funny thing is I ask them if it could be to block the view of the ground from satilites, some kind of military manuever and within a week a search for contrails produced a site stating thats what it is. Until I see
Bill and Hillery ( or atleast Hillery ) wearing gas mask or members of our military and govenment and thier families refusing to breath outdoors I’m going to assume it’s probably not supposed to make us sick, but it might be anyway. I think it’s weather\cloud control maybe global warmings happining and thier trying to fix it. Could be moving stuff they don’t want seen by satalites.
( I do live close to a major Air Force Base ) Maybe it’s vaccinating us against something, Look up “nano bombs” and you’ll see what I mean. All I’m sure of is it’s happing and you can’t get it seriously conscidered by anyone ! Maybe the media isn’t aload to talk about it so they supress it. **I tried to post a letter like this on Straitdope message board five times with no luck.
Don’t believe me ? Try it. say I sent this to you and try posting. It just Won’t happen. ** The sad thing is ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS LOOK UP !! There right there. Almost every clear day over most major cities. Atliest they used to be, I havent been out in the day much lately and when I am I don’t even notice. Why you ask ? It’s like another friend of mine said ( he also witnessed it for over a
month, we just havent spoke about it in the past 3 or 4 months.) He said, " so what What can you do" "It doesn’t matter what they are doing, what can you do "
After a bit I found out he was right. Other than get strange looks thier isn’t anything I can do. So I don’t worry much about it anymore. I just live my life glad I’m here and not over in some desert starving. All I can tell you is there is planes making contrails or chemtrails or
something and there doing it according to a plan And it’s right there in broad daylight everyday almost and noone notices. the few that do notice wants to find out
what for and why and since noone will tell them\us we are left to our Imaginations. Hopefully truth isn’t scaryier than fiction.
Shiningnight
OK, here goes…hitting the submit button. Will I be banned? My post erased? Oh wait, I think I hear a plane overhead, it’s spraying…something…arggh…it burns…it burns!!
[QUOTE]
**
All I can say about this is that we never used to have persistant contrail days here where I live for the last 8 years, something has definately changed. Now we have days where these persistant trails build up to form a huge cloud that hangs over the city by the end of the day.
Here’s an interesting website discussing the subject: