Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@Smapti

He continued to drive for a mile and a half without stopping and had no legitimate reason to do so. This is not in dispute. That meets the standard established by the law.

How do you figure that?

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@Smapti

This is the location where the officer signaled him to stop. Please indicate what exactly you consider “unsafe” about it.

Its secluded and its poorly lit.

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@Smapti

A law-abiding civilian has absolutely no cause or justification to be afraid of the police in any location where they have a right to be.

Checkmate.

And how does he know its police?

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@Smapti

How is that in any way an issue here? The officer was driving a fully decorated squad car with professional-grade lights and sirens, not an unmarked sedan with a revolving light on the dashboard. Are you suggesting a reasonable person could believe that a band of thieves has stolen a police cruiser, gotten away with it, and is now roaming the streets with it in order to prey on law-abiding citizens?

Yes. It is at least as reasonable as the excuses you dream up for why the police are always correct.

[Smapti]

@Damuri_Ajashi

How do you figure that?

He failed to stop for police when instructed to do so and it was safe for him to do so.

@Damuri_Ajashi

Its secluded and its poorly lit.

How is that relevant to it being safe to pull over for the police? It’s not as if local hicks are going to set upon and overwhelm them during the traffic stop.

@Damuri_Ajashi

And how does he know its police?

It was a fully liveried police cruiser. What reason would he have to believe it was not police?

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@Smapti

I’ve never seen a cop car that just said “POLICE” on the side and had out-of-state plates. Have you?

How do you tell that through the rear view mirror at night on a poorly lit road?

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@Smapti

If the cop car had been a fake, he wouldn’t have been any safer in the Sam’s Club parking lot than he would have been at Bay & Liberty.

I agree, he should have kept going until he got to a gas station or a police station.

[Banquet_Bear]

…just to take this away from the “Sampti and Steophan” show just for a minute.

I think that this video of the shooting of Charly Leundeu Keunang has come up before in the thread: (warning, the video shows the shooting of Charly Leundeu Keunang, and may not be NSFW)

I just finished reading this GQ article about the shooting: and it looks like from the people who have seen the footage from the body-cams that the police story doesn't match up with the story that the police have given. But that really isn't what caught my attention.

From the GQ article:

And meanwhile, a woman—her name is Trishawn Carey, but on the street people call her Nicki Minaj—walks around the knot of men and picks up the nightstick Volasgis has dropped. What she means to do with it isn’t clear. It was not likely clear to her. She’s “fifty-one fifty,” say many who know her, slang for insane. Later, when I visit her in jail—her bail is set at $1,085,000, and she could face life without parole for picking up the stick with which she didn’t touch a soul—she’ll tell me she doesn’t remember what happened, she doesn’t really know why she’s in jail. Then, crying without tears, she’ll sing hymns. Pretty little soprano through the jailhouse phone.

The End of A Black Life That Mattered

For those who choose not to watch the video: Trishawn is shown at the very start of the video, walking past the scene. She is very nearly knocked over by one of the policeman, sees the group of police on top of Charley, picks up a fallen nightstick and then motions aggressively for about a second before she is tackled and arrested by police.

Trishawn has been sitting in jail since the shooting (three months) with bail set at over a million dollars. She is mentally ill and faces a potential life sentence. In an open letter from the Los Angeles Community Action Network:

Post arraignment we connected with many community residents familiar with her and it became clear that her mental health status is widely known – this of course concerned us greatly.

To this end we sent a delegation to visit Ms. Carey in custody – a registered nurse was part of this team – to ascertain her current medical condition. Within minutes of speaking with Ms. Carey a number of things surfaced, 1) that her mental health condition is very apparent and needs to be evaluated and treated; 2) that her physical health was not great and she complained about not getting the right medication for her diabetes; and, 3) that she is aware of her health history and health diary and has been battling these conditions for years. While it would not be proper to share all the details regarding her health we assert the need for a full psychological and psychiatric evaluation prior to proceeding to the scheduled preliminary hearing.

Free Trishawn Carey: Open Letter to District Attorney Lacey

This is all manner of fucked up. No, she shouldn’t have picked up the nightstick, and she shouldn’t have adopted an aggressive stance. But in a non-fucked up society doing either of these things doesn’t land a mentally ill person in jail for months facing a life time in jail.

I wish that people would stop feeding Sampti and Steophan. They clearly have screwed up ideas on society, and engaging them isn’t going to change the way they think. And wasting energy on those two means that the whole purpose of this thread gets forgotten. Trishawn has another bail hearing tomorrow. Here’s hoping she gets the help she needs and isn’t condemned to more wasted time and money sitting in a jail cell.

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@Smapti

You answered your own question. He kept driving for 1.5 miles.

So you admit that he pulled over, just not immediately?

I am aware of no “but not unless he thinks the place that he’s at is unsafe because maybe the cops are actually bandits or something” exemption in Michigan law.

So you admit that he did not try to elude police?

So what crime did he commit?

AFAICT, he could have kept driving to a police station or until a 911 operator told him that the car behind him was in fact a police car.

It is my position that people who are guilty of a crime should accept that they are guilty and face the consequences instead of wasting the state’s time by forcing a trial, especially when they are graciously being offered an opportunity to accept a lesser sentence than the one which the law permits them to be given.

But he’s not guilty. How does he meet the elements of the crime?

And what if the cop was a werewolf? That’s exactly as likely a proposition.

So we’ve seen actual examples of people being pulled over by people pretending to be police and then getting robbed. Show me an actual example of a werewolf.

A “waste of resources” that could have been avoided if this man had pulled over in the first place, or plead guilty to the misdemeanor.

Or if the prosecutor wasn’t such an idiot that they tried to charge this guy.

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@Smapti

He failed to stop for police when instructed to do so and it was safe for him to do so.

He did not feel safe and it was not unreasonable for him to feel unsafe.

How is that relevant to it being safe to pull over for the police? It’s not as if local hicks are going to set upon and overwhelm them during the traffic stop.

He can get robbed.

It was a fully liveried police cruiser. What reason would he have to believe it was not police?

Because he has had friends that got robbed by people purporting to be cops so he knows that not all people who purport to be cops are actually cops.

I don’t know how much credibility you have left but this is a poor place to make a last stand.

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@Banquet_Bear

I wish that people would stop feeding Sampti and Steophan. They clearly have screwed up ideas on society, and engaging them isn’t going to change the way they think. And wasting energy on those two means that the whole purpose of this thread gets forgotten. Trishawn has another bail hearing tomorrow. Here’s hoping she gets the help she needs and isn’t condemned to more wasted time and money sitting in a jail cell.

I wish we could ignore people like them but they make up a large minority of the population.

[septimus]

@Smapti

Tamir Rice was not a “law-abiding civilian” as has been amply demonstrated multiple times over the course of this thread. Objection overturned.

Uhhh … cite? He was brandishing a toy gun hoping to rob someone of toy money?

@Smapti

I’ve never seen a cop car that just said “POLICE” on the side and had out-of-state plates. Have you?

A personal anecdote somewhat a propos of this subthread: Returning home one late night in rural Thailand, I saw what appeared to be two uniformed Thai policemen at a checkpoint. Although they gave me no clear signal, I stopped, thinking they might want to check my papers or inspect my car. They did go ahead and search my car, but one cop said to me: “What did you stop for? This is a lonely dangerous road.”

That’s right. In the middle of rural Thailand where many had only a third-grade education, the danger of stopping even for “uniformed police” was apparent … except to me , the naive American expat.

When will U.S.A. catch up to Thailand in rational thought?

[Gary_Kumquat]

@Smapti

A law-abiding civilian has absolutely no cause or justification to be afraid of the police in any location where they have a right to be.

Kathryn Johnston, Accelyne Williams, Annie Rae Dixon, Jonathan Ayers, Rodolfo Cardenas, Ismael Mena, Mario Paz, Alberta Spruill, Pedro Navarro…how many cases would you like of police killing people who were committing no crime, in a place where they had a right to be?

[kayaker]

@Gary_Kumquat

Kathryn Johnston, Accelyne Williams, Annie Rae Dixon, Jonathan Ayers, Rodolfo Cardenas, Ismael Mena, Mario Paz, Alberta Spruill, Pedro Navarro…how many cases would you like of police killing people who were committing no crime, in a place where they had a right to be?

Forget it, Gary. It’s Smaptitown.

[Happy_Fun_Ball]

@Smapti

Tamir Rice was not a “law-abiding civilian” as has been amply demonstrated multiple times over the course of this thread. Objection overturned.

I have not been tracking this thread closely and I apologize if the answer is upthread, but what law do you think Tamir was breaking? Do you suspect he was breaking the law, or was he convicted?

[dasmoocher]

@Happy_Fun_Ball

I have not been tracking this thread closely and I apologize if the answer is upthread, but what law do you think Tamir was breaking? Do you suspect he was breaking the law, or was he convicted?

In Smaptitown, not immediately obeying a police officer is grounds for shooting.

[kayaker]

@dasmoocher

In Smaptitown, not immediately obeying a police officer is grounds for shooting.

And the bill for the bullet is sent to your next of kin.

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@Smapti

Tamir Rice was not a “law-abiding civilian” as has been amply demonstrated multiple times over the course of this thread. Objection overturned.

Wasn’t Tamir Rice 12? What crime had he committed?

[PatriotX]

@Damuri_Ajashi

Wasn’t Tamir Rice 12? What crime had he committed?

He threatened a cop?

[Fear_Itself]

@PatriotX

He threatened a cop?

Yeah, when the cop ordered him to drop the gun, his hand moved toward the gun in his waistband. Righteous shooting.