Are you suggesting that groups of Africans, operating on the continent of Africa, raided African villages in order to capture fellow Africans, who were then to be used as slaves, and to be sold as slaves? That is cRaZy.
??? What does this have to do with any part of this discussion?
Of course, they only did so upon prompting from Europeans. A lot of prompting. With guns.
Slavery had always been a byproduct of warfare in Africa (and, really, in the Ancient world period) but the dawn of slavery as an Institution with a capital** I** not only kicked it into overdrive, it also transformed its very nature - the type of chattel slavery that took place in the Americas and West Indies had very, very little in common with the more “benign” form of slavery practiced until then. Which was bad, but not quite Shoah-level horrible. *That *took White Man’s Ingenuity.
Fact is, in Africa and the Muslim world prior to European involvment, many “slaves” wound up wielding the highest levels of political power for example ; and plenty were educated. And the numbers involved were nothing alike, of course.
TL;DR : fuck off, you disingenuous race-baiting prick.
I would certainly agree that all those things are bad, distasteful, and should not be permitted. But they’re not “inherently immoral”, because there is quite simply no such thing as “inherent morality”. Right and wrong are not some inherent quality of the universe or some dictate handed down by a supernatural being - they’re man-made abstractions for the things we’ve decided we do and don’t like.
(post shortened)
That sums it up, quite nicely.
No, it fucking does not.
What does it sum up? What is your point?
Do you believe that happiness is, by definition, better than suffering?
Part 1 -
Part 2 -
Gosh, just how stupid are you? You just reminded me why I stopped reading, and responding, to your delusional ranting in the first place. Maybe, in your spare time, you could ask Bam Boo Gut the same question?
I was RESPONDING to Bam Boo Gut’s post, but you have no way of knowing that.
Bam Boo Gut was ridiculing the idea of blaming slaves for their own enslavement. Your next post was about Africans enslaving Africans, which had nothing to do with Bam Boo Gut’s post (or any other part of this discussion).
Yes I would, and I would also agree that a world in which all preventable suffering is minimized would be ideal which I assume is where this is leading. That doesn’t mean, however, that the universe itself abhors suffering or that there is some moral imperative incumbent on all humans to minimize suffering. There are people out there who would likely take a different approach and argue that suffering is important to the human experience, or that suffering builds character and weeds out the weak, or that people should be expected to pull themselves out of bad situations without having to rely on society to do it for them. I disagree with those views, but I can’t disprove them simply by stating my own opinion.
It’s remarkable to interact with someone who is not a neonate and who is totally devoid of any agency whatsoever. Any and all structure comes from without, but only in the immediate environment - external authority in any form (physical or coercive force or legal authority). Stunning when you think about it.
Okay. I’m not going in quite the direction you anticipate, but thanks for elaborating. Here’s my second question: Do you believe that happiness and suffering correspond to states in the brain which can, in principle at least, be quantified?
As I’ve said, there’s something in black culture that is causing their young men to be vastly more violent than anyone else - that’s the different cause, the different culture. I’ve suggested things to do with the culture that might cause it, to which you’ve unsurprisingly shouted “RACISM!!!” rather than actually discussing it.
I’m not running away from anything, you’re refusing to actually respond to what I write. For some reason…
Black people aren’t even the people who’ve been discriminated against the worst in the US, at least in the last 150 years. No internment, no reservations, no destruction of entire nations of people. And yet, for some reason, the Japanese and the Native Americans aren’t several times more violent than anybody else…
This is an astoundingly false assertion when the entire 150 years (or prior decades) are considered.
Over 3,400 African-Americans have been lynched in the last 150 years. I forget, how many Japanese and Native Americans were lynched in that time?
You know what’d help? If you preface statements like that with “I’m not a racist but”. And then maybe follow it with a “some of my best friends are black”
That way no matter how sweeping a statement you care to make about incidents of violence being due to black culture (rather than socio-economic factors or historical issues) people wouldn’t mistakenly conclude you’re a racist fuck.
Obviously you have no idea what racism is, then. Historical issues or socioeconomic issues aren’t unique to black people, the young, violent men are. You know why the problem won’t be solved? Because even talking about it gets idiots like you screaming “RACISM!!!” rather than actually trying to find out what’s happening.
It’s like you want to keep a dangerous, destructive culture that kills thousands of people, and harms many many more, because you’re too scared to think about it. And yet I bet you’d be the first to condemn other dangerous (or seemingly dangerous) cultures, such as US gun culture, or fundamentalist religion…
I imagine you mistake commenting on the effect of the culture for blaming members of it in general. It isn’t, the only people who deserve blame are the ones committing the violent acts - but if we want to stop it, we need to understand why. Kneejerk, thoughtless liberalism won’t achieve that.
There were times when that many Native Americans were killed on a weekly basis. Yes, there are problems with young Native men being violent or otherwise criminal, that would be a good baseline for the effect of poverty and bigotry. And yet young black men, despite being treated better, are far more violent.
Unless you’re going to contend that the lynching of that many people is somehow worse than the attempted eradication of entire civilisations - an actual series of attempted genocides - in which case, I’d have to conclude you’re either insane or literally retarded.
There are no young, violent white men? Latinos? Asians? Why are all those police departments wasting money fighting gangs?
Calling you an idiot is an insult to idiots.