I’ll put it in this Great Debates thread.
How would you fix policing, especially with minority communities the most?
It is a bigger issue than abortion, climate change in my opinion, because public safety is a big issue.
What is the update?
How could it possibly be bigger than climate change? You realize that affects every single thing on this planet, right?
There’s probably nothing we can do directly about how the police deal with minority communities. Racism is a problem in all of society, so it’s no surprise that it’s a problem in police work.
What I would do is change the things we can, because they are problems unique to the police.
First and foremost, end the war on drugs. Every problem you can name in the relationship between the police and the community is at least made worse by, if not directly caused by, the war on drugs. The erosion of 5th amendment rights under things like Stop&Frisk, out of control asset forfeiture, and routine traffic stops being used as excuses to search vehicles and their passengers comes almost entirely from the search for drugs.
As part of that, I’d add a “Did I fucking stutter?” level of clarification to the 5th amendment protections. Make it a positive policy that things like traffic stops are to be used only for traffic control. No one should have to wonder if they’ll be going to jail just because they were doing 5 over the limit. Pull them over, write the ticket, and move on.
There also has to be comprehensive changes to US police officer’s use of force guidelines. Paranoid overreaction has become so standardized as policy that far too many Americans actually defend it as being normal. It’s not normal, and needs to be burned to the ground and completely rebuilt.
Total accountability and complete transparency would do just fine with me. I am completely aware of the need for quality law enforcement and for strong community support of law enforcement, and that support will only get stronger as trust gets stronger.
Bad cops don’t deserve the support they gain from “the code of silence” because, ultimately, it penalizes all the good cops and all of law enforcement in general because it allows the bad instead of the good to color the overall view of law enforcement in the eyes of many people.
I put this topic in the BBQ pit thread. My error.
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Eliminating unreasonable civil asset forfeiture - basically stealing from the public in absence of any crime. This sets the tone of law enforcement that it is ok to abuse the public without any accountability.
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Eliminate qualified immunity if the action is unreasonable. If it is reasonable fine but have you seen these stories of cops destroying houses of innocent people and stealing, raping and killing people? Qualified immunity should not be carte blanche to do whatever.
And I’m also speaking of de facto qualified immunity including protection from the DA and the force when an officer commits a crime.
And in addition, ignorance of the law is not an excuse for civilians right? If a cop makes up a law (you can’t video me, you need to show ID), any actions after that cannot result in a crime like resisting arrest. Any action the cop takes based on the made up law is subject to criminal & civil sanctions like false arrest, stealing (seizing a phone, etc.)
I know the argument is how can a cop act if they don’t have immunity? The problem is that a cop is immune from ANY repercusion no matter if their actions are reasonable or unreasonable. It is reasonable to expect cops to not make up laws, to not destroy innocent people’s homes, or actively break the law. -
ANY proven abuse of power results in losing the ability to be a cop ANYWHERE in the US.
That’s a start.
I would make “dealing with law enforcement” a mandatory part of high school curriculum and what to do when a law enforcement officer pulls you over part of obtaining a driver’s license.
As part of the driving test, everyone would be pulled over by an officer with flashing lights, the officer would scream at the top of his lungs for the test taker to get out of the car in the prescribed manner. I mean everything. Hands in the air, walking backwards, falling to you knees. All of it.
It seems to me most of these people who get shot by police officers either don’t know how to handle an encounter with law enforcement or are uncooperative. I think that if everyone is on the same page there would be a lot less officer involved shootings.
I can see how not knowing how to handle such an encounter can get you shot if you’re hiding your hands or otherwise looking like you have a weapon. But killing someone for not cooperating? That’s beyond the pale.
Sounds like an admission that the U.S. is a police state and a suggestion that citizens be trained to submit to authority from an early age.
My father gave me pretty good advice on what to do when pulled over by a police officer:
[ul]
[li]Pull over as quickly as is reasonably possible.[/li][li]Roll down the window.[/li][li]Turn off the engine.[/li][li]If it’s dark outside turn on the interior lights.[/li][li]Keep your hands on the steering wheel until the officer asks for driver’s license and proof of insurance.[/li][/ul]
I think this is pretty reasonable and it actually got me out of a ticket once. If we’re at the point where we have to teach people how to obey an officer’s orders with a gun to their head I’d say we have a serious policing problem. I’ve seen some videos where suspects hesitate because they’re given contradictory orders “SHOW ME YOUR HANDS! DON’T MOVE!” It’s the police who need better training.
But this isn’t really a police problem it’s a society problem. The police behave this way because most of us don’t really mind.
Recruit police officers from all parts of society. So many cops come from extended feed families where everyone is military, then LEO. If they aren’t a cop, they are a prison guard. The wives stay home or work in law enforcement in a support role. These families are often incredibly patriarchal, racist, abusive incubators of the us vs them mentality. Drown out people from those dd’s families with police officers of all sorts of backgrounds and experiences.
I have a friend who is retired from a federal branch of law enforcement. He surprised me when I asked what he thought of the problems we see today. I thought he’d immediately stick up for his colleagues, but instead he thought for a moment and said, “You know… there are a lot of people who shouldn’t be cops.”
He went on to say that he felt the main problem was that de-escalation is not a skill many police possess and it should be more actively taught and encouraged. Sounds reasonable to me as a start.
Police need to be held accountable for their actions. Certainly they should get some leeway given the nature of the job but the usual “paid leave while we figure it out” (read paid vacation) is not sufficient. We can throw case after case after case out here where police behave badly and suffer no repercussions.
Make police accountable for their actions and things will start to change. I would suggest anytime a police department loses a malfeasance case at least half of the payout is deducted from the police retirement fund. As it is now, when the police get sued and lose, you, Joe/Jane Taxpayer, are the ones paying the plaintiff. The police suffer no downside. Not their money…why would they care?
I agree there are “good” cops and “bad” cops out there. Just like in any profession.
We are often told to remember this. My problem with it is the “good” cops (almost) never go after the “bad” cops. They turn a blind eye and let it be.
Don’t seem like good cops to me anymore.
(SEE: The movie “Serpico”…better still read what really happened to a good cop trying to bust bad cops…I think to this day he suffers repercussions).
Bringing my comments over form the other thread.
We should have mandatory camera laws.
There should be independent agencies that are separate from police control and influence that investigate allegations of police misconduct.
Aside from collective punishment being wrong, you might want to rethink that idea. Implementing such a policy would prove a strong disincentive for any individual willing to speak out against their fellow officers. Officer Fudd is less likely to testify against Officer Bluto if it means everyone on the force and those who retired will lose some of their retirement money. You’d be strengthening that blue wall of silence.
So if during that traffic stop the Officer becomes aware that an actual crime is/was/is about to occur you would have him/her completely ignore that suspicion because it wasn’t related to the reason for the stop?
Just spit balling here so take it with a grain of salt…
- Every person employed as a law enforcement officer will be removed from the criminal justice system completely. Local civilian review boards will be in charge of policing all law enforcement officers regardless of rank and tenure.
- The civilian review board will be primarily comprised of members of the local minority communities and they will have the power to arrest, conduct trials, convict and sentence.
- No member of the civilian review board can ever have worked as a LEO or have a living family member who has worked as a LEO.
- All appeals will be conducted by a civilian review board from a different part of the country and at no time will the cop be allowed to enter the traditional criminal justice system for any reason.
- Any LEO found guilty of aiding, abetting or ignoring another LEO who has committed a crime will automatically share the sentence of the guilty party in addition to another 5 years to whatever sentence was passed down.
- Any LEO sentenced to prison will receive no protective custody and no special treatment. Any prison officers or officials found to violate this will automatically receive the same sentence as the guilty party plus 5 years.
I figure if the cops are being held accountable by the people who they are most likely to abuse instead of the people they consider friends and collogues then we should see a remarkable improvement in community relations.
Step number one is to get rid of the vast majority of laws. It shouldn’t even be possible for a cop to kill someone over selling loose cigarettes because that’s not the type of thing that should ever be considered wrong or even questionable in a free society. Murder, rape, theft, assault, arson, vandalism, breaking and entering… that’s about it. The police simply shouldn’t be enforcing anything else.