My question is: Should the cop have just shot the perp instead of arresting him? After all, we know cops can be in fear of life, and therefore justified in shooting to kill, if a suspect reaches into his pocket for ID after being asked to present ID, or if an accident victim opens the door of his damaged vehicle. Surely a suspect who actually has a gun is more fearsome. That particular Ohio cop was compassionate enough to just arrest the suspect, but after the lawsuit cops should learn the message:
Arrest → Get sued
Kill → Justified shooting.
Indeed. The arguments are rapidly approaching the level of the Astro City story where a lawyer successfully defended a mobster who killed someone in front of multiple witnesses by invoking various comic-book tropes (which admittedly aren’t impossible in that setting) such as the possibility that the victim wasn’t actually dead or that the killer was an evil twin from another universe.
Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel should resign but that’s a different issue. ( She (Cooksey) was surrounded by supporters, some who wore T-shirts saying “Rahm failed us.” hehehe. )
CNN affiliate WLS reported that LeGrier’s family said he suffered from a mental illness, though his mother disputed that characterization Sunday.
*…LeGrier’s family said the Northern Illinois University student suffered from a mental illness, WLS had reported, but on Sunday Cooksey disputed that characterization.
“Stop disparaging his character,” she pleaded Sunday. “He does not have mental issues. He was an honors student.”*
If the family can’t agree on his “mental illness”, how are the police supposed to know that the guy charging at them while swinging an aluminum bat is mentally ill AND NOT just a deadly threat? Someone is swinging a deadly weapon. Someone else fears for their life. The police are called to handle the situation. Maybe those/that concerned citizen(s) should have called the bat swinger’s mother instead of the police?
Why can’t the media outlets verify the information before they release their stories? Dorsey (a retired Los Angeles police sergeant and law enforcement consultant for CNN) said an aluminum bat could cause injury but “is not a deadly force.” Dorsey is wrong. An aluminum bat, knife, or a bag of car radios can be considered deadly force when they are used as such.
Perhaps if you defined “combative manner” it would help clarify his actions? He threatened his father with the bat OR while carrying a bat in a non-threatening manner, he threatened his father? While carrying a bat, he ran downstairs in a non-threatening manner OR while carrying a bat in a non-threatening manner, he ran downstairs in a threatening manner?
I will not define ‘combative manner’ as it was not me who used the term. It was the cops, who shot him and neighbor who had the misfortune of being the one who opened the door. YOU said he swung the bat and you used ‘threatening’ . The cite doesn’t support that.
The cite only says he was ‘charging down the stairs, carrying the bat’ and ‘combative manner’. Lot’s of wiggle room in that term.
I don’t know about you, but I have some questions. First among them, how far away were the police officers when they opened fire? Did they identify themselves? Shout any commands like ‘Drop the weapon’? How may shots were fired in total? The cite doesn’t provide these details.
I think we can all agree that the story is badly written.
One thing we can assume is that they didn’t bother to identify the neighbor as a non-participant or give him time to move away. They just shot her. She was 55. They said she was ‘accidentally struck and tragically killed’. That just raises more questions.
The question the mother asks is valid. Why did they open fire? Especially with another unidentified party in the line of fire. An aluminum bat against multiple police officers? No one though to back up a few steps and pull the taser? Maybe try to tackle him?
Do all the cops shoot in panic like Terry in Brooklyn 99??
Many questions remain unanswered. Many questions remain unasked. You ask several good questions but still say, “They just shot her”. It’s unknown if the police were trying to shoot her. Was she trying to exit thru the doorway ahead of the angry loony with the bat? At what point did the shooting start? Was batboy inside the house or outside? Was the 55 year old in front of or behind batboy (viewed from the street/sidewalk/officer’s viewpoint)? Did one or more officers fire with the intention of protecting the 55yr old from harm?
This is a tragic situation for everyone. Personally, I would prefer that the media outlets verify the story’s facts before they publish it.
In news that I’m sure will come as a great surprise to absolutely no-one by now, the cop who shot Tamir Rice won’t be prosecuted. The prosecution didn’t even get past the Grand Jury stage. Now, I’m hardly au fait with the intricacies of the U.S. justice system, so please correct me if I’m wrong here, but as I understand it, Grand Jury hearings are basically formalities, right? Something like 99.9% of cases that go before a Grand Jury are sent to trial. According to this article, US attorneys prosecuted 162,000 cases in 2010. Know how many didn’t get past the Grand Jury stage?
*"In a statement, Tamir’s family said they were “saddened and disappointed” by the outcome, “but not surprised”.
“It has been clear for months now that Cuyahoga County prosecutor Timothy McGinty was abusing and manipulating the grand jury process to orchestrate a vote against indictment,” the statement said.
The family accused McGinty of mishandling the grand jury process, by hiring expert witnesses and allowing the officers to read prepared statements, which “compounded the grief of this family”."*
If all this is true, it really does show that there’s one rule for cops and another rule for the little people, doesn’t it?
Well, their own words were ‘accidentally’ and tragically’. But this is after the fact. After they realize she was just a neighbor. So we’ll take that with a grain of salt.
I’m not surprised by the outcome, but I think it’s wrong, and I think Judge Adrine was right, and the actions of the cops should result in indictments.
No surprise there. But according to the article, “Van Dyke, 37, faces six counts of first-degree murder and one of official misconduct in the death of 17-year-old McDonald.”
Can one of our legal types explain how they’re getting six counts of murder out of one death?
Not a “legal type” but the Chicago Tribune has published the indictment return sheet.
Illinois State Law lists a plethora of statutes related to murder, intent to kill, intent to injure, and having a strong probability to kill and/or injure. The Assistant State’s Attorney selected six that he believe applies to this case (and would increase the likelihood of getting a conviction on at least one count).
INFORMATION INDICTMENT RETURN SHEET
CASE NO. 15CR-20622
IR 2306293
DEFENDANT Jason Van Dyke
No. 001
ARRAIGNMENT 12/29/2015
GJ- 161 FBI-XJ5E48PA3
ISB-45954410
Municipal-15-1127823
CB-19227223 Arrest Agy: COOK COUNTY STATE’S ARRORNEY
RD/AR-15-IB110156 Arrest Unit:
Arrest Date: 11/24/2105
DL State: *** DL#: ***
Hgt: 602 Wgt: 210
Hair: Brown Eyes: Blue
True Bill
ASA: William G Delaney
001 MURDER/INTENT TO KILL/INJURE WITH FIREARM
720 ILCS 5/9-1(a) (1)
0753000 Class: M
002 MURDER/STRONG PROB KILL/INJURE FIREARM
720 ILCS 5/9-1 (a) (2)
0753000 Class: M
003 MURDER/INTENT TO KILL/INJURE DISCHARGE FIREARM
720 ILCS 5/9-1(a) (1)
0753000 Class: M
004 MURDER/STRONG PROB KILL/INJURE DISCHARGE FIREARM
720 ILCS 5/9-1(a) (2)
0753000 Class: M
005 MURDER/INTENT TO KILL/INJURE DISCHARGE FIREARM PROXIMATELY
720 ILCS 5/9-1(a) (1)
0753000 Class: M
006 MURDER/STRONG PROB KILL/INJURE DISCHARGE FIREARM PROXIMATELY
720 ILCS 5/9-1(a) (2)
0753000 Class: M http://www.chicagotribune.com/ct-jason-van-dyke-indictment-document-20151216-htmlstory.html