Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread

The first sentence above makes clear that you are completely unqualified to pass the judgment in the second sentence.

The idea that you can look at a majority-black city, one where blacks are stopped by police at a level that dramatically outweighs even their majority population status, and where the police force is predominantly white, and argue that it is merely “tasteless” for the leaders and officials of this city to routinely correspond in racist emails, is absolutely staggering.

This is the worst type of racism, not because it’s more virulent than any other kind (i’m sure there are plenty of people in America more racist than these idiots), but because it is racism that attaches to instituutional and legal power and control. If some fucking idiot from Bumfuck, Missouri or Incest, Alabama or Flannel, Vermont is a raging racist, that’s something to worry about at the general level of culture and society. But when our actual authorities and law enforcement are racist, that strikes at the very heart of our notions of rights and citizenship. And if some people are willing to simply hand-wave this away as “tasteless,” without any real concern for its impact, i think this actually demonstrates how deeply racist ideology is embedded even among people who would bristle or whine if you pointed out their racism.

In the whole debate over the Michael Brown case, i tried to reserve judgment until the facts were in. I have dozens of the Grand Jury documents on my computer, and while i certainly don’t have time to read all of the thousands of pages of testimony, i’ve read the testimony of quite a few of the key witnesses. Had i been on that Grand Jury, i think there’s a pretty good chance that i would have voted not to indict the cop, just like the actual Grand Jury.

But that doesn’t mean that everything is just fine in Ferguson. The exoneration of the cop in this case doesn’t mean that Ferguson cops don’t police blacks unfairly, and it doesn’t mean that structural racism isn’t part of the force. The DoJ report makes that very clear, and i also believe that, even if incidents like the Michael Brown shooting are found to be justified, the very nature of those incidents often probably escalates precisely because a bunch of racist asshole cops treat almost every black person they come into contact with, for whatever reason, as a criminal rather than as a citizen. The fact that this doesn’t seem to worry you tells us a lot about your character.

And if you believe that referring to a black man as a chimp isn’t racist, especially given the context of the other emails, then you’re either too stupid to breathe, or you’re simply racist yourself. Those are the only two possible choices.

Is there any possibility that, as the DOJ asserts, law-abiding black citizens are disproportionately likely to be approached with no valid reason by police, and more likely to ultimately be tased (or otherwise inflicted upon with violence) when they were doing nothing wrong and broke no law before they were approached?

And if this is so, is this a bad thing in your mind? Is it okay with you if a town’s police disproportionately hassle law-abiding black people?

Was there any point in US history in which black people might have been disproportionately hassled by the police without valid reason? If so, is there any non-zero chance that the DOJ report is accurate and this still might exist in any locality in the US today?

I can personally de-escalate things using non-threatening voice tone and body posture, and creating rapport by treating people like…humans. I can’t speak for cops. I’ve known some good ones, but I doubt they are all trainable in that way.

No, the other possibility is that referring to Obama as a chimp isn’t racist.

Regards,
Shodan

No, I don’t think that is a real possibility.

Well, maybe if the chimp is stealing chickens and eating watermelon…

Possibly he wasn’t a federal government employee, and actually a federal contractor like it says in plain English in the part that you quoted. And possibly contractors, not being government employees, can be fired for all manner of reasons in any “at-will” employment state.

This is exactly the sort of thing that people talk about when they mention white privilege. I’ve had a fair number of interactions with the police owing to my heavy right foot, and I’m always incredibly respectful. Generally, I’ve been treated with respect in return, and I’ve never had a problem. I’d be foolish to think that this has nothing to do with the fact that I’m white, live in a low crime area, and, frankly, always guilty of whatever I’m being accused of.

You may have seen this video before, and if not, watch it for an example of what some black people have to go through. A regular guy drinking iced tea in the parking lot of the liquor store (where he bought said tea) is harassed by a beverage cop. He’s respectful, but he knows his rights and he’s not 100% compliant with the officer’s demands. That gets him arrested, and it took 2 years for the charges to be dropped.

The commentary after the video is excellent; the key point he makes is that the man in the video was arrested because he didn’t bow down. If that had been me I’d have handed over the can, given him my ID, let him search my car… whatever he wants, because for me that would be a rare event. I can afford to be harassed by a bad cop once in my life.

But man, if I lived in that neighborhood? If I was constantly harassed for things like that? If the cops always expected me to bend over every time they felt like it? Do you still think I’d be so eager to comply? Your criticism of people who refuse pat-downs is meaningless, frankly, because you don’t know what it’s like to have to endure that sort of treatment on a regular basis.

Finally, allow me to pile on here in saying that this is an incredible amount of stupid crammed into a relatively small number of words.

If the world emerged fully-formed last week, with no history of racial discrimination, and no history of whites referring to blacks as primates and simians and other sub-human creatures, you would have a point.

I’m only a historian, so maybe you can tell me: did the world emerge fully-formed last week, or did all of those other things actually happen?

I think what Shodan is saying is that on its face, it may or may not be racist, but when carefully considered in the context of its being part of a bunch of really fucking racist emails being circulated by racists, the obvious conclusion is that it is in no way racist.

Is it just Obama, or is it never racist to call black people apes or chimps?

Surprisingly, doing a Jerry Lewis as a chinaman impersonation is not racist either, and will get you extra fried lice in your to-go order.

Florida law enforcement decide it’s a good use of tax money to launch a raid, with an actual SWAT team, upon the residence of a minor pot dealer. They find he is unarmed and therefore shoot him in the face, killing him in front of witnesses.

Public opinion will probably run to “if you break the law, you’re running the risk of getting shot in the face by the guardians of the community of which you are part” and “I certainly hope the officer who shot that perfectly good white boy gets a firm slap on the wrist”.

I don’t blame the shooter cop so much. I blame the bosses who decided this raid needed to happen. I also blame the culture that says their lives are worth so much more than the lives of citizens.

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/officials-man-shot-face-while-deputies-attempt-ser/nkNWP/

No, I have a point because calling someone a chimp isn’t based on race, since people call white people “chimp” as well. By your logic, calling Obama a son of a bitch would be racist as well. Which is silly.

Regards,
Shodan

Jury sides with cops who killed a guy they pulled over. Dispatcher tape recordings recently released (for some mysterious reason) challenge the veracity of the cops’ story. Outrage ensues.

Is there a racist forum that has named itself after dogs? Because there’s a well known racist forum that would 100% disagree with your assessment of the word “chimp.”

First rule of holes, friend.

Are you unaware that “ape”, “monkey”, and similar words have been used in a derogatory fashion against black people as a race through much of our history? I thought this was widely known. They’ve also been used against other individuals, but the only race that was widely accused of being close to apes/monkeys and similar, and represented and denigrated as being apes/monkeys and similar, is black people.

I thought this was commonly understood.

Read more here. There’s an incredibly ugly history with these terms and images against black people.

It’s ironic that this guy gets the death penalty for selling a substance that’s legal in, what, 3 states now, more to follow?

PR fail. Justice fail. Common sense fail. Compassion fail. Fairness fail.

Well, then, you got oodles of examples right at your fingertips.

See, I’m in disagreement with most people over judicial/police misconduct and brutality. I feel like such breaches should be MORE harshly punished than if a civilian did them, because they increase disorder in our society by reducing faith in (and respect for) our public servants.

Other people feel (and I will never understand why) that being a public official is a factor in favor of leniency. Do these people not care about preserving faith in our public servants? Do these people not pay taxes? I want the best deal I can get for my tax money, and leniency in cases like this is NOT how that’s achieved.

At the least, any public official should be barred from holding any government position of any type, including contract work, if they have committed a breach. Fuck police unions. The police are the LAST job title that should be allowed a dispute process on firing. How is that not understood? Am I just smarter than everybody else?