Just a suggestion - before you lefties start babbling about the numerous things you are clueless about - one of which is the NRA - you really might want to educate yourself first.
Before you criticize others, you should look to yourself.
You apparently have not seen this ad then?
Do you actually have a defense for it? Does this ad represent any of the “values” that the NRA claims to have? The only reason for an ad like that is to either try to foment a civil war, or to drive gun sales. Can you point to any public education, gun safety or training info in the ad?
You link me to their own PR glurge as proof that the NRA has objectives other than increasing gun sales, and even that piece is all about increasing gun sales.
Are there facts that are still unknown?
The ridiculous hyperbolic fear-mongering and outright lies – like Obama is unAmerican/anti-American, sympathizes with our enemies, wants to take away guns from Americans, rampant fear-mongering against “smart guns”, insistence that background checks are bans and constitute a registry of gun owners, etc.
Wayne LaPierre has said “There’s no telling how far President Obama will go to dismantle our freedoms and reshape America into an America that you and I will not even recognize.”
That kind of bullshit directly harms our country, and by contributing money, you are a small part of that harm. These aren’t incidental or side-conversations the NRA are having – this is their central message – hateful lies and exaggeration, and it’s harmful to America.
You are helping make this happen, and IMO you should be (in a small way) ashamed of yourself for doing so. What little good they might do in protecting gun rights is overwhelmingly outweight by all the bullshit they’ve spread. Lots and lots of Americans think Obama and the Democratic party are enemies of America because of factually-false rhetoric like this, and you’re helping them do it. In a small way, shame on you.
If you think the incredibly minor threat to gun rights that gun control advocates actually constitute outweighs the massive threat to America that bullshit wingnut rhetoric constitutes, then your priorities or your understanding of the realities of American politics are seriously out of whack, IMO.
To be fair, it is pretty much a knee-jerk reaction that anytime you hear about some gun-nut shooting up a bunch of kids in an elementary school, just like many people will make donations to the red cross, first responders, or to an anti-violence campaign, NRA members need to make a donation to the NRA to protect the guns.
Why would you think it was OK with me when i am the one that started posting about how their reaction to Philando Castile was NOT OK with me?
And they don’t bill themselves as a civil rights organization any more than NARAL bills themselves as a civil rights organization. They are both primarily concerned with a single right.
If you can point me to another gun rights organization that is as effective as the NRA at protecting second amendment rights, please don’t keep it a secret. But what you seem to be saying that I can’t support racial justice while also supporting an organization that protects another critical right (an organization that doesn’t really seem to give a shit about racial justice even if its not doing anything to create more racial inequality). The fact that the NRA is not a good ally in fighting against racial inequality doesn’t mean they can’t be good allies in fighting against attacks on the second amendment.
S&W was perceived as having sold out the cause in order to get favorable treatment from the government. A boycott ensued.
You must not be on Democratic donor mailing lists because its fucking armageddon every other Tuesday and I must simply MUST send them money to fight against Trump. I must donate money to prevent all sorts of horrible things that are NEVER going to happen. Is the Democratic party also lacking a legitimate cause?
So you’re not really arguing in good faith. You are just taking pot shots because a gun rights guy is admitting disappointment at the NRA?
And a piece of paper called the constitution. The fountain of all modern democracy in the world today.
OR they’re like every other fund raising organization that exaggerates the crisis to get more money from people who care about their cause.
Effective self defense is easier with guns than without them. The right to keep and bear arms is not limited to guns. When they invent light sabers and phaser pistols, it will apply to them as well.
I’m saying that you recognize the NRA is fundamentally racist, and you continue to support them. You have never effectively argued that they are not racists, just that you accept their racism as a cost of their Second Amendment advocacy. You seem to recognize that the NRA only supports Second Amendment issues insofar as they benefit white people. An organization that continues to embrace Ted Nugent and fails to back up Philando Castile is, as now should be obvious to everyone, a tool of a racist status quo.
You give these people money.
The next time someone calls you a racist, consider that it may well be because you associate yourself with racists.
Yes, the right to keep and bear arms requires the ability to buy guns. But their purpose is not to increase gun sales. Like I said, I think the NRA would prefer a country where everyone household had a gun over a country where a third of households each owned ten guns.
Are you talking about this ad?
Its a recruitment ad. I don’t think its a “go out and buy another gun” ad. Like it or not (and i don’t), guns have become a partisan issue. It didn’t have to be but Democrats have insisted on it and the Republicans were more than happy to oblige them and pick up votes in swing states.
So wait, you think there was no threat to gun rights in the aftermath of Sandy Hook? They were about to pass one of the most retarded forms of gun control we have seen in our history. Gun rights may not be important to you just as abortion rights are not important to the religious right but it is a right all the same and if you want to start picking and choosing rights based on who is in power then I don’t think anyone wins.
Really? That ad said “go out and buy a gun” to you? It didn’t say “join the NRA” or “send money to the NRA”? The NRA want to protect the right to get a gun just as NARAL wants to protect the right to get an abortion and NARAL puts out plenty of scary things to convince you that we are on the precipice of losing the right to abortions. Same thing.
So now your feelings are proof of something?
Oh so you think that Ad was intended to drum up gun sales from the folks who are trying to implement gun control laws? Wow.
Did you go out and buy a gun because of that ad? Or do you just FEEL like that was what they were trying to get you to do?
So as a minority, I must be willing to turn my back on the only effective advocate for gun rights to prove that I am not a racist?
I associate with plenty of racists. What fucking nirvana do you live in that you can go even one fucking day without associating with a racist? I’m starting to think you might be white. Thats not an insult just an observation about people who think that racism is isolated enough that it can be avoided by choosing the right friends or something.
The NRA is FAR from being a pillar of institutional racism. There are a lot of racists in the NRA because gun culture is more prevalent in places where racism thrives (more rural areas, the south, etc. but there is no more than background levels of racism at the gun ranges in northern virginia. There is no more than background levels of racism if you go to the suburbs of more liberal cities. Racism and guns are correlation without causation. There is no necessary link between guns and racism.
No, I think you missed the boat there. You can believe an organization has flaws and still support it. Damuri Ajashi has never said he thinks the NRA is a perfect organization, just that they are the best, he knows of, at protecting the right of gun owners. Now if he’s ever offered the chance to do something about the apparent problems in the organization and chooses not to, or says that there is nothing wrong, then you might have a legit complaint about him.
I happen to think the govt of the USA has not done enough to protect the rights of minorities (racial, sexual, gender etc). and I think that occasionally out and out bigoted people are elected to positions of authority. But I see no need for myself or anyone else to denounce the govt as useless, and renounce their relationship with it.
eta: i see he beat me to it!
There is no necessary link between guns and racism, and yet you contribute money to an organization that you recognize ignores the rights of black people due to their race, as well as spreading hateful lies about Obama. There is a link between that and racism, and yet you’re okay with this enough to give them money.
Shame on you.
I thought this one justified an update. The officer, Adams Lin, was later found liable in a federal civil suit and the jury awarded his victim $22 million (for which Lin and his employer are joint liable). The county and Lin appealed, but the county neglected to post an appeal bond, so all of Lin’s stuff has been taken by U.S. Marshals. In the meantime, Lin was promoted to sergeant.
There is some sloppy reporting in the article which suggests that the county and Lin can’t be ordered to pay more than $200K against the jury verdict, but that cap is for state law cases and doesn’t apply to a §1983 claim.
Just realized there was some other sloppy reporting: the sheriff’s office wasn’t found liable at all.
There’s “associating with” on the sense of casual contact, then there’s “associating with” in the sense of providing material support to.
I’m going to make one more post on this, then I’ll drop it. The NRA is not “flawed”. It is fundamentally racist as an organization. This has been proven by its response to the Castile shooting. And, yes, I’m saying that if you’re a member of a racist organization, the way to prove that you’re not really a racist is to stop being a member of the racist organization.
As far as how to advance your political priorities without funding a bunch of racist fucks, I have no idea. But maybe if you’re having trouble finding gun rights organizations that aren’t racist fucks, that may tell you something about the gun rights debate.
And there’s this:
“He declined not to do it”?
Me talk pretty one day?
Let me throw that back at you:
There is no necessary link between BLM and rioting, and yet you support an organization that you recognize has been involved with and incited riots. There is a link between that and rioting, and yet you’re okay with this enough to support them.
Shame on you.
Like it or not, guns have become a partisan issue. Mostly through the efforts of the left. Partisans spread lies about each other. To an outside observer, you would think that Trump was the worst president we have had in recent history and yet he has done almost nothing compared to Bush, who started a war that killed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians. So perhaps you can tell me what “hateful lies” they have spread about Obama?
Where do I say that the NRA ignores the rights of black people? I think you are reading way more into my posts than you should.
The fact that they don’t raise a fuss about Philando Castile when I think they would have raised a fuss about some white CCW doesn’t mean they ignore the rights of minorities to the protections of the second amendment.
So when I complain about the NRA’s double standard wrt whites vs blacks getting shot, you think that means I am OK with that disparity? I think that’s a weird way to interpret my statements.
Or does the fact that I don’t immediately sever any and all association I have with the NRA mean that I fully endorse everything about them?
You support BLM IIRC. They have incited and participated in riots that have ruined families and even resulted in deaths. And yet you’re OK with this.
So when i give them that money, they use it to lobby congress and the states to protect the second amendment. They don’t use it to advance any racist agendas so what is it about giving them money that makes means I am supporting racism?
If I give money to planned parenthood to perform breast examinations, am I supporting abortion? No? Then how is giving money to NRA to advocate for second amendment rights the same thing as supporting racists?
Do you have a cite for the statement that the NRA is a fundamentally racist organization?
7% of the NRA board is black
The senate is at 6%
The Fortune 500 boards of directors is at 8%
I don’t know that this means anything but they are about as white as some pretty powerful institutions in America.
It tells me that guns rights are very important to people in rural areas and the south. Turns out that that is where a lot of racists live.
I bet I could find a high correlation between farmers and racism. Is farming racist too?
That story was from January 11.
A week later, a magistrate ordered that Lin’s belongings be returned to him.
Huh. Thanks for pointing that out.