This has been the big news on the Sacramento news stations for several days now.
Possibly a distinction without a difference against the blue wall, but he was working as private security at the time.
He didn’t get permission for moonlighting as security. Detroit does not allow off duty police to work at bars. He didn’t report the use of force. He was violating several policies.
I’m not outraged at the 20 times. That’s a single magazine for each police officer. If they’re going to shoot at all, shooting through an entire magazine is not inappropriate.
But that’s where the outrage does come. The decision to fire in the first place should never have been made.
Actually, I might be angrier if it turned out they each only fired a couple times. That would compound their incompetence with even more incompetence and/or a potential indication they did not consider themselves under a sufficiently serious threat to merit the use of deadly force.
I didn’t see any of the cops on this message board stating how fucked up this was. Did they? Does anyone have a link to any cops that post here criticizing this? I mean, fucking jaywalking?
Don’t hold your breath.
this I don’t understand. . . if you’re gonna shoot, empty your gun. . .that’s outrageos to me!
mc
Why? If you perceive a threat, you shoot until the threat is gone.
I don’t think you can expect the cops, or anyone else, to be gingerly. Shooting is a go/no go decision. AKA “never point a weapon at something you aren’t willing to kill”. Whether or not this specific instance was justified doesn’t change the dynamics.
Regards,
Shodan
I agree. IF shooting is necessary (and I certainly don’t think it was in this instance), you are supposed to shoot to stop the threat. Which, to most people (my supposition) means one or two shots and then pause to see if there is a continued threat. Not empty your 10-round mag because your scared. But we regularly see police shootings where dozens of rounds are fired, with most emptying their guns. Seems more like panic than well-trained behavior.
If he really has a gun, one of the ways one can find out if there is a continued threat is if he shoots you.
A police shooting isn’t kindergarten - we don’t take turns.
Regards,
Shodan
Well, that’s certainly ONE way to find out.
I admit it’s easier to be a Monday morning QB than be there. But are you saying police are trained to empty their guns? To just keep pulling the trigger?
And I would like your serious thoughts on police switching from 6-shot revolvers to 7-, 10-, 15- or even 17-shot semi-auto pistols. I’m not sure it’s a good thing.
When a cop-friend of mine taught me to shoot my handgun in a household defense situation, he stressed identifying my target and then firing into the center of mass until the threat had been neutralized, which really meant until I was out of bullets.
What exactly does this mean?
Until your target is down?
Until your target stops moving?
Until there isn’t enough left to identify?
If one cop fires 4 times(by which time the suspect is down and not moving) and his partner at the same time fires 4 times then continues on to fire 6 more times, which cop do you admire more?
What about reloading and continuing?
What if your target isn’t neutralized and you are out of bullets? Throw the gun at him?
Well, I kept two speed-loaders in my bedside table drawer with the gun, but no. That would show intent to kill, not just neutralize the threat.
In all the practice sessions we did (at home and at a gun-range) a typical situation in the home had a dead or dying intruder once the gun was empty. You aren’t firing over a long distance, at most it is across the length of a room.
Firing at an advancing target at the range, I’d usually put all my shots into the target. The handgun was a S&W .357 magnum.
What is the difference? Doesn’t firing 10 shots at someone show intent to kill?
Please use the proper terminology:
You aren’t firing at somebody who may are may not be reaching for their cellphone or registration.
You are Neutralizing the Target. The Target has only one purpose in life-to kill you.
Twenty shots were fired. Clark was hit “multiple times”. In a residential back yard.
To neutralize the threat to themselves, police became a threat to everybody else in the area.