Run, duck, get the fuck away from him-screaming is NOT a sign of control, and a man coming towards me screaming, badge or no, is something to fear. Can you show me a single police training video that recommends this approach?
If you think running away is a good idea when the police point guns at you, I think there is no hope for you. Besides, he tried the running away part, and it didn’t work, so he tried an alternate strategy. He came towards the police, even after they told him to stop and show his hands.
You freeze and put up your hands. Do you seriously suggest that this is a tough decision to make?
Gee, someone in a uniform is coming at me, pointing a gun at me. (After I have been, apparently, smashing the windows on a truck.) Whatever shall I do?
There isn’t two different sets of instructions to follow if you are black vs. white, when the police point a gun at you. It isn’t even tragic that “black parents have to have The Talk about police encounters”. This isn’t rocket science - if he is pointing a gun at you, don’t startle him. It’s like the first fricking thing my judo sensei said when we studied gun disarms. You make yourself as non-threatening as you can, because you don’t want to get fricking shot. You don’t have to be Einstein to figure these things out.
[ul][li]Don’t run away. As Chris Rock says, “if the police have to come and get you, they bringing an ass-kicking with them.” []Put your hands up - it shows you aren’t scary. It’s a bad idea to scare people with guns. []Don’t make any sudden moves - because they are pointing a gun at you, and you don’t want to startle them. []Drop your fucking cell phone on the grass - you can post the YouTube video of The Man Is Putting Down Me Down, Part 962, later. []If you can’t understand what he is saying, don’t do anything. [/ul] [/li]
Remember these helpful hints. Or don’t, and maybe you will wind up famous. Dead, but famous.
Regards,
Shodan
What is your basis for this claim?
I’m saying people react in unexpected, unplanned, not deliberate ways without really making a conscious decision, especially when someone is running toward them screaming at the top of their lungs.
I’m not referring to this specific incidence, so set aside the smashing windows conjecture. There are videos of people getting shot by cops in stores and in parks before they had a chance to do anything at all, let alone make any deliberate decisions. That’s what I’m talking about.
But you’re deliberately avoiding the issue of screaming at people. Your deflection is obvious.
Not even. He conveniently ignored the cop’s own words that he had his hands out in front of him, fell down, and then they shot him.
But there are two sides to these stories:
If I’m running away, I am not a threat to you and should not be killed.
If I dont instantly do what you say, I am not a threat and should not be killed.
If I dont have a weapon in my hands, I am not a threat and should not be killed.
Even if you think I might be reaching for a weapon, I might not be, and am not a threat and should not be killed until your sure I do have a weapon and am a threat.
“Do you seriously suggest that this is a tough decision to make?”
Are you seriously saying that a civilian who has probably never been in a situation like this, who makes a mistake and does not respond in the proper manner is responsible for what happens, while at the same time a trained officer who makes a mistake and kills and unarmed civilian is not responsible for what happens?
mc
By Jove, I think you’ve got it!
I have addressed the screaming several times. It doesn’t make any difference - if a cop points a gun at you, you freeze and put up your hands whether he is screaming at you or not.
If you are incapable of doing that, then there is nothing to be done. If you panic when the police points guns at you, and run away instead of freezing, and then when the police catch you, you come towards them with something in your hand instead of freezing and showing them your empty hands, then you stand a good chance of getting your silly ass shot. There is nothing that can be done about that - there aren’t enough people in the world who never raise their voices when under threat, so we won’t have enough cops if we only select those people. And I tend to believe that someone dumb enough to come towards a cop who is screaming and pointing a gun at him is dumb enough to come towards a cop who is not screaming and pointing a gun at him. So he is going to wind up with bullet holes anyway.
This is the Monday-morning quarterbacking I spoke of earlier. Clark did appear to have a weapon in his hand, so he was a threat.
Horseshit. Pure, unalloyed horseshit. The police should not wait until he actually gets the weapon out and starts shooting.
The suggestion is ridiculous.
Regards,
Shodan
You keep repeating this or other police claims that, AFACT, have not been verified. What is your basis for this? I’ve asked multiple times, but you haven’t responded, leading me to presume that you have no basis except that you trust police officers to always be honest.
Of course there is. The police should actually know the person has a weapon before shooting them 20 times.
Hey Shodan, do you have the fucking balls to actually answer the following question?
Do you believe he had a cell phone? His girlfriend could have been lying when she said he had hers.
Yes, I do. You (Crazy Canuck) are an idiot.
And the civilian in question (Stephon Clark) has been in situations like this before - he was convicted of robbery and domestic violence before. He should know the drill. Apparently he’s a slow learner.
Regards,
Shodan
Either this is the Monday-morning quarterbacking I mentioned before (and trolling), or you will be able to describe specifically how the police can be instantly sure of what is a weapon and what is not, while chasing a suspect who has refused orders to stop and show his hands, in low-light, high-stress conditions, such that they never make a mistake.
Which is it?
Regards,
Shodan
Let me get this straight: If I make a mistake, I die, and if they make a mistake, I die?
That wasn’t the claim you made (that he “had a cell phone”). You said earlier that he didn’t obey the cops, and that he approached them with something (his phone) in his hand. By what basis do you confirm that these parts of the police account are accurate?
No need to get salty with me for not accepting your pathetic dodge of the question. Now I remember why you’re not worth interacting with.
Regards,
Crazy Canuck
Sorry, I have better things to do than troll an anonymous message board. I never said “instantly”. I said “before they shoot a guy 20 times”
What is the difference between “instantly” and “before he gets off a shot”?
Depends on the mistake. If the cops are pointing guns at you, and you run away, and then when they catch you, you come towards them with something in your hand, that might charitably be described as a “mistake” and you might die from it. If you are trying to bust someone for vandalizing a truck and he runs away and then when you catch him he comes at you with something in his hand and you wait to see if it is a gun and he shoots you, then that is a mistake as well. You might die from that.
Both mistakes can be avoided by the simple expedient of not running away, and stopping when the cops tell you to stop, and showing your hands when the cops tell you to show your hands. Dopers such as yourself seem to think this is incredibly difficult, particularly for black people. I think of it more as screamingly obvious.
“Doctor, it hurts when I do this.”
“Then don’t do it.”
“The cops shoot people who resist arrest, or run away, or come at them when they are ordered to stop, with something in their hand that looks like a weapon.”
What to do, what to do.
Regards,
Shodan
Why don’t you tell me, since I didn’t say “before he gets off a shot”? Again, I said “before they shoot them 20 times”
Here’s what you should do: reread this fucking thread and see how much your asinine “advice” doesn’t pertain to most of the situations described therein.