You’re right. They didn’t put the bad apples on the riot squad. The whole fucking barrel is rotten. They resigned because they think they were wronged when all of a sudden we changed the rules on them. They never expected to be punished for beating up poor people or brown people, that’s not fair. We should have warned them if we were going to expect them not to act like uniformed thugs. They’ve knocked down old men with impunity for decades and suddenly it’s a problem?
And I’m sure their superiors didn’t order them to rough up protesters. I’m sure their superiors very carefully told them to protect the citizenry and their property in accordance to their constitutional rights, just like they’ve ordered them a hundred times before. And every time they’ve ordered them to do that in the past their superiors have looked the other way when the cops hammered some poor bastard to the ground.
Well, this time they got caught. The times have changed. This isn’t something that just started happening, it’s something that started happening on camera. Cops have been acting like this forever, they just started being filmed more often.
It’s just too bad that the 95% of cops who are uniformed thugs give the rest of them a bad name.
I don’t think we disagree, except you seem to think that their superiors were actually ignorant that this was the case. I don’t believe that. They all came up through the same system. Whatever words were said, the riot police knew they were supposed to be rough, they were doing what was expected. I really hope they aren’t content to be the fall guys, that they take all the rest with them. That’s my whole point.
If those 57 who quit that special team come out and publicly discuss just what happened, and denounce the same, and their story is credible, THEN we can consider having some respect for them. Maybe. They may still have been thugs, but at least we could see them as repentant thugs.
So far, I’m not hearing that.
(ETA: To be sure, their lawyers are probably advising them in the strongest terms to keep their moufs shut.)
I don’t have any respect for them, regardless. That’s not my point at all. The point is just that such a group action suggests this was a systemic problem and that acting like the two cops who have been charged were outliers seems unwarranted. They aren’t awesome. But it’s awesome to see a circular firing squad form up and show the rest of the world the reality of the problem.
Given the way that they’re applauding at the courthouse, it doesn’t look like they’re making a subtle, but important statement about corruption in the higher ranks of the force.
It looks pretty much like Buffalo Police are pro-beating-up-the-elderly.
When someone tells us who they are, we should listen.
That’s not what I am saying. I am not saying that they are pointing out corruption because they are opposed to it, i am saying they are pointing out corruption because they feel entitled to it, because they had years and years where they were entitled, where they felt confident that they could fuck people up and they would be protected. It’s not subtle, its a Mac truck.
I don’t understand why people are reluctant to believe the whole department is complicit in this. Riot police AND their superiors. They can all be evil fucks. Seems the most likely thing.
Exactly.
“Just following orders” has some rather unfortunate connotations so we’ve changed that to “following proper policing procedures”*. Sounds much better, but it’s the exact same thing. If the ‘proper procedure’ is to violently shove back everyone you come across (or kneel on their neck until they stop moving and complaining) and you do that, and have done that all along, then it’s a nasty surprise when it’s suddenly considered not the thing.
It’s the ‘procedures’ that need looking at (and changing) as well as the people that have embraced them.
*direct quote from our local rag’s story about an indigenous woman who was shot and killed during a welfare check a few days ago.
This. They had no problem UNTIL they got called on it.
They like having no accountability, and the power to abuse anyone they please. The job, by its very nature (badge, guns, power, authority and the use of force) attracts the WRONG type of people, and the screening is OBVIOUSLY inadequate.
A big part of the problem is police unions, that knowingly and successfully protect seriously bad cops. They protect cops that are known to be bad. I’m a union guy, but it’s time to get rid of police unions.
And we’re fucking SICK of the “few bad apples wait until the facts etc” garbage.
It’s not an either or.
Use the flunkies to get the big shots, and then “reward” the flunkies WITH them later. Just give the flunkies slightly lighter sentences for flipping on the “Mister Bigs”.
Unless they were really acting on their own. In which case crucify them.
Yeah, stop comparing cops to the military, which does have its own issues, but also has the UCMJ, a proud tradition of political neutrality, and a profound distaste for hurting American civilians, all of which Repubs have attempted to destroy. There are surprisingly few ex military in the police. I imagine Blackwater or whatever the fuck Erik Prince is calling them these days scoop up most of the strutting failures that get booted out.
The military stresses de-escalation. The military has Rules of Engagement which have five or seven levels —I can no longer remember— including only being allowed to <i>return</i> fire when fired upon. There’s also the fact that an accidental discharge of a firearm can take down the shooter, the shooter’s squad leader, the squad leader’s platoon NCO, the CO, the BNCO…I saw one case where it went as high as Brigade, but the highest two just got career-ending letters of reprimand. Of course, that was before the Repubs started letting Evangelical assholes in.
The military also is at least 40% minority, immigrant, and female. The cops are 80-90% white, male, and Trumpie. Everybody above E5 these days has a degree.
At interrogator school, we had to read and memorize sections of the Geneva Conventions. (What nobody wants to tell you about interrogation is that everybody wants to talk, and in some places, it’s not getting them to talk that’s the problem, it’s getting them to shut up that’ll keep you busy.)
The cops have used, for example, the North Hollywood shooting twenty-three fucking years ago as an excuse for “militarization.” It happened once and there were only two guys, one of which they refused to render aid to after shooting him twenty times. You are required to render aid once the combatant ceases or is no longer able to resist. The Army would have sent two snipers----hopefully not those assholes Kyle or Gallagher)----and the two guys at least wouldn’t have wounded all those people and shot up a neighborhood.
When the NYPD had a snit a few years back, the results were not what they expected.
Legalize drugs, stop using surplus military equipment-----are the cops facing IEDS every day? VBIEDS? suicide bombers? ambushes? firefights?—No?Then STFU----; and get rid of the police unions that take pride in defending utter scumbags.