Convince me that DS9 is not the best trek

Odd choice, since ‘Tribbles’ was David Gerrold’s first crack at writing and most of Ellison’s script for ‘City on the Edge of Forever’ was turfed. But it’s the thought that counts, and I agree. I’d like to see folks like David Brin take a crack at writing for the new show.

DS9 > TNG (close 2nd) > VOY > ENT

Never watched TOS completely, so I’m not going to compare it to the rest

Also Robert Bloch, Theodore Sturgeon, and Norman Spinrad, and a dizzying array of Hollywood screenwriters…and Shari Lewis (would you believe?).

I like how Damar came out of nowhere to become one of my all-time favorite characters.

“Tacking into the Wind” is my all-time fave ST episode. It felt like anything could happen in that ep.

My favorite DS9 episode was in the pale moonlight. It showed that although you could have principles, those principles can be a causualty of war.

I would. She co-wrote ‘The Lights of Zetar’.

Why do I know this stuff?

You remembered that she wrote an episode where somebody gets puppeteered and spoken through? Man, what are the odds? :wink:

Enterprise was easily the best. It had a nice, gritty, real quality to it unmatched by the others. Even the Xindi season was filled with material that was better than the bulk of the other series. The Surek’s Katra story was excellent, and Shran was a really good character.

And it had a beagle in the crew. But I might be biased, because I was born in Enterprise.

I suspect arguing about which ST was best is akin to arguing about which religion is the One True Faith. Except for ST:Voyager. The only thing that had going for it was 7 of 9’s uniform.

Memory Alpha has a detailed report of the Dominion war. Including references to the various episodes.

I’d forgotten how fully developed this story arc was. Hints and rumors of the Dominion begin in season 2. It slowly builds from there.

Major Spoilers

It’s always been my favorite because it was epic and self-contained. It was about war, occupation, religion, empire. It had a beginning and an end and told a great story. I’m re-watching it now on the Heros and Icons channel and it still holds up.

I think Voyager has a surprising number of fans. I was at Star Trek Mission New York this weekend and attended panels for all 5 shows and other than William Shatner, surprisingly the Voyager cast panel seemed to me to be the most full. Also, at another panel they did a live podcast where the crowd voted for the best crew (best, Captain, Helmsman, Doctor etc.) and believe it or not Janeway won. Partially because Spock was picked as first officer so people argued Picard and Spock would not function as the most effective team (yeah, as Trek fans are wont to do, we took this very seriously :)).

If you’re curious my impressions of the casts who were on Stage together (TOS was represented by individual Panels by Keoing and Shatner):

DS9 (Sisko and Bashir were not there) seems to like each other the least (specifically I got the impression they didn’t like Worf or Dax) and it was stressed at both the DS9 and TNG panels that their set was not a fun place t work. Also Avery Brooks demanded everyone call him Mister Brooks. Armin Shimmerman seemed like an interesting guy to talk to. Kira seemed to be happiest to be here and Odo joked the most.

The Enterprise cast were hilarious (it was Phlox, Reed, Trip and Travis). Phlox gave prizes out to people who would ask the most embarrassing question which set the tone of the panel and Tarvis basically took over for the bad moderator. He showed more personality in that one hour than in 4 seasons of the show.

The TNG cast (no Picard, Data or Wesley) seemed the most comfortable with each other. Troi was surprisingly warm and kind of took over. Another crazy thing: a fan uses his question to propose to his girlfriend and she said No!

Voyager (Tuvok , Seven and Chakotay and Harry Kim were not there) seemed somewhere in the middle. Comfortable but not like they are family like the TNG cast. Janeway was great live and seemed like a fun person to hang with. Tuvix got brought up and when it was pointed out she murdered him to save Neelix and Tuvok she said “Damn right I did!” which brought the house down. Neelix seemed to know the show the best of any actor on any cast. He knew show titles and everything.

Avery Brooks is a strange and intense person. I think he is much more comfortable on stage and in the classroom than in front of a camera. If you watch the documentary The Captains* you can see his unique outlook. I’ve never run into him but he is pretty local since he is a professor at Rutgers University.
*I liked The Captains despite the fact that it was mostly about Shatner and how he reacted to each of them. Patrick Stewart seemed to be very amused by Shatner.

The series was recently released on Netflix in Canada…so I’m naturally watching it again.

I’d say it has by far the best world building of any Trek. It doesn’t really waste time on species of the week, but really fleshes out all of the major Alpha Quandrant powers in ways that is never done on other series (although Enterprise explores the Andorians and Vulcans in detail).

In his signature low-key fashion, Bakula manages to wow Shatner by just amiably replying to his questions: that’s right, I got my start in musical theater. Did I take voice lessons as a youth? Uh, yeah; I still take voice lessons every week.

I’ve tried twice to watch DS9 in its entirety, but I keep giving up midway through the second season. I understand that it gets better the longer it goes, and I wouldn’t say that there’s anything particularly “bad” about the first two seasons, they just fail to hook me in any way. The episodes aren’t very impactful as a standalone and there isn’t much continuity from episode to episode.

Avery has a great voice and does decently as an actor. Sisko seems to be written well, but fundamentally doesn’t have much to do. His son is annoying (maybe not Westley Crusher annoying, but pretty annoying).

Bashir is annoying. He’s like a tween yuppy turned ivory tower doctor.

Miles O’Brien and Keiko seem to have a dysfunctional relationship that the show never seems to want to accept is dysfunctional. Miles always seems like a grumpy asshole, which is a bit annoying because he was fine as a character in TNG. In DS9, they seem to have rewritten him as the DS9 equivalent of Barclay - a not very likable nor interesting character, who they keep seeming to want to write about for some unknown reason.

Odo and Garak are pretty awesome. I forget who it is that is always having conversations with Garak (Bashir?), but I’d watch a TV show that was just Garak having conversations with people.

Quark is pretty good, though once the writers decided that he was good, they start to make him a nice, friendly guy instead of a Ferengi, which made the character less interesting.

Dax, Kira, and Worf are largely forgettable. Kira’s character has some promise, but not much comes of it (in the first 2 seasons).

Of the good characters, Garak rarely has any storylines of his own. Quark’s storylines mostly just end up diluting the character. So it ends up being the Odo show. And when it isn’t the Odo show, it’s all just characters we don’t care about or even dislike.

I can envision that if Sisko and Kira are given more important roles (in a storytelling sense, not just as theoretical emissaries of the gods or whatever) that the show would pick up. But I’ve never been able to get to that point.

TNG at least had the advantage that you could watch it out of order and just watch the good episodes. If there’s a viewing guide for DS9, I’m sure I’d like it much better.

Odo gets some good lines, and some good Odo-centric episodes, but Garak really is the best character. He’s a lot smarter and a lot more devious than he lets on. He’s also a lot more dangerous. He’s that type that comes across as a charming fellow, one everybody likes, but he’s really a ruthless bastard. Liking him is like befriending a great white shark.

If you never watch another DS9, change your mind and watch In The Pale Moonlight.

aside: despite what I wrote, I don’t think DS9 is the best Trek. Sorry!

Oh no, I do want to. I just need to start from season 3 or 4 or something. (It looks like Ronald Moore comes in on season 3, so probably that one.)