We had a copy of today’s paper in my apartment today (randomly on stoop). Read column in magazine section by a dad whose daughter, a student an elite private HS, is beginning the college selection process. He tries to convince the reader that WHERE you go to college is irrelevant. HE’S 100% WRONG! (and I sent the column an e-mail saying so) If where you went to college was irrelevant, everyone would go to State U. So I ask, Dopers, convince me I’m wrong and he’s right.
Where you go is irrelevant (or relevant) pertaining to what?
Assuming “relevant” is short for “relevant to finding a ‘good’ job” (again, we need to define what good is–$, power, etc.) , no, I believe that where one goes to college matters a great deal. That’s why the Ivy League schools can be so selective and have such large endowments: there’s a perception that a degree from these institutions is worth more. And when it comes to finding a job, I would agree.
However, what you do when you graduate is ultimately up to you. Your educational pedigree might get you a nice job, but it won’t keep it for you. The latter requires a mixture of hard work and a bit of luck.
Conversely, getting a degree from State U (BTW: has the OP heard of “public Ivies”–some state schools are highly regarded) won’t necessarily keep you out of nice jobs. Loads of people have gone to “sub-par” schools and end up doing okay.
Yeah, if that’s what you mean by relevant, then imho, it can be a way (in some cases THE way) in the door, but I don’t think it’s relevant to a person’s ultimate success. THAT imho, has to do with a person’s character and work ethic.
What I meant by “relevant”-relevant to happiness/high standard of living. And I have heard of the “Public Ivies”. It just irked me that he believes (and is trying to convince his daughter evidently) that people who go to State U. have the same opportunities that a Harvard or MIT alum have. IMO, he’s doing his daughter a HUGE disservice.
I went to NC State University - a very affordable state school - and I double majored in political science and french language & literature. I would argue that not only was my school irrelevant but my degree is also irrelevant - just having a degree is important.
Having recently hired for a position on my team (creating training materials), I didn’t care where a person went to school AT ALL. I did look to see if they had a degree but I was much more interested in work history and work samples. I ultimately hired two people, one with a degree, one without.
My manager, a 20+ veteran in the field, does not have a degree. A close coworker at the Very Large Software company I worked at in WA State also did not have a degree.
Assuming you mean relevant as to finding a job, then it matters as far as your first job goes. After that no one is going to judge you based on how well you did in school.
The ivy league schools also give you access to better networks, and they let you get used to the networking culture before you start to work. Those are pretty much the most valuable skills you need to get good employment.
Just trying to figure out what opportunities my “crummy” state school degree has denied me. I have worked for Raytheon, Microsoft and now a Very Large Consumer Electronics company. Three fabulous companies, three fabulous jobs.
I graduated from college with 0 debt. That’s right, 0. I think the opportunity to graduate with a degree and without any debt is an opportunity in itself.
Notwithstanding your misguided (IMHO) conflation of happiness with a high standard of living, if happiness is one of your metrics, my answer is “No, it doesn’t matter.” I knew a guy who got into MIT, was so miserable he quit, went to Michigan State (a “good” school), also hated it, and is now living in California (AFAIK) degree-less but happy managing one business and running one of his own.
ETA: Okay, anecdotal evidence is not worth anything, but I predict that the type of school you go to is not a significant factor in your “happiness”, at least when it’s measured later in life. Maybe if you ask freshmen, those at the “good” schools would say they are happier. But follow up with that cohort 40 years later and see if the graduates of the “good” school are happier; I’d predict there would be no difference.
I would say everything in this post is correct, and additionally I would add that the college student’s experience is going to be very different from school to school. Someone who is a very academically driven student might have an unpleasant experience at a school where she was massively overqualified, the other students are just there to party, etc. If you don’t feel comfortable in your surroundings, that drive to succeed academically and finish your degree is going to be considerably lessened.
Edit: this is similarly the case for career-minded students whose parents think the best choice for them is to enroll them in a liberal arts school! People should tailor their college choice to their own learning style and interests.
statsman-Why is it “misguided” to believe “high standard of living”=“happy”?
Well, my ex-wife went to Piddling State U for her bachelor’s, and did well.
Then, she went to Good State U for her master’s, and did well.
Those experiences got her into Highly Respected U for her doctorate. Which she obtained. But she wouldn’t have got to Highly Respected U if she did not do well at the previous schools.
Seems simple to me: you can get where you want to be if you work hard, no matter where you begin. But you have to work hard and get the grades!
Because it is an incomplete picture. High standard of living means for most people one less potential thing to be unhappy about, not a guarantee of happiness per se ;).
What school you go to matters a great deal in certain instances, in others it is irrelevant. For example where you went as an undergraduate is virtually irrelevant if you are going to get a graduate degree. In those cases what is important, if at all, is where you got your terminal degree.
In some fields what matters is reputation of the particular degree program, not the university itself ( i.e. some otherwise unremarkable state schools have very highly regarded specific departments ). Also if you’re entering academia in particular ( i.e. becoming a professor or curator ), individual performance will often trump academic pedigree.
Other examples are those entering more vocational fields ( teaching, nursing, clinical science etc. ). Folks in those areas usually needn’t be overly concerned about their institutions either, as long as they are decent.
From my working experience where should probably be whether.
If you come from the upper crust of society, where you go to college probably matters.
For the other 99.9999% of us, it doesn’t. A degree will help you GET a job - most employers don’t care WHERE the degree is from.
Sit on your ass after you get hired, and you won’t KEEP the job, whether you went to Harvard or Whatsamatta U.
I think, like anything, it depends.
If someone has twenty years of experience in their field and then decides to finally get a B.A at Unknown Local College, that’s a different picture than someone who goes straight to Unknown Local College and tries to enter the workforce that way. Especially if they don’t study something that is marketable, do internships or co-ops, or they move to a location where no one has ever heard of Unknown Local College.
The biggest benefit of Ivy Leagues and other namebrand schools isn’t necessarily the quality, but their “knownness” factor. I know that’s a polemic statement, but from my experience it is true. You say you have a degree from MIT and people automatically assume you’re a smarty-pants. You say you have a degree from Unknown Local College, and people just shrug.
So in that way, it matters. Your impressiveness affects how easily you get hired (though it’s not the sole factor) or whether or not a graduate school wants to enroll you (especially if your grades are mediocre).
But also from my experience, I have known very intelligent people who attended schools I’ve never heard of, and I’ve known people with average abilities who went to prestigious schools. So I’ve learned not to judge a person based on where they went to school.
The supervisor/management types in my agency have “namebrand” academic pedigrees. Not necessarily the Ivies, but just schools with good reputations. But it’s not like everyone else went to sorry, no-name institutions. So obviously other factors are at work.
Ultimately I guess it helps. Name recognition of your university alma mater will open doors but as other posters have correctly said time, effort, and ability ultimately determine our paths through life.
Also, its all very well aiming for an Ivy League university but they don’t accept students just because you have a nice smile. These are elite institutions and they keep the barriers high - because they can.
My girlfriend and I both went to Cambridge. My first job after university was in a telemarketing outfit where the interview was basically “Can you read this script? Are you a legal citizen? Good, you can start Monday.” I’m certain that it was sticking with that crappy job for six months that got me my interview with my current employer, rather than my degree.
My girlfriend, on the other hand, just started with an archaeological outfit that had 400 applicants for the position. Having a degree from a top university definitely helped her get an interview, although of course it was her other credentials that got her the job.
So yeah, I guess it depends on the job you’re looking for.
Agree that it depends on what field you’re in and what you mean by success. I think it might matter somewhat when you are trying to land a job, but your performance after that means a whole lot more than some piece of paper on the wall.
In thinking of several large engineering companies based in this town, most of the CEOs went to a state college. I consider them sucessful people.
I was just reading a discussion about this on an engineering board, you might find it interesting:
I think that going to a good school can matter a great deal if you’re planning to work straight out of college. On the other hand, oddly, it can matter a lot less if you’re planning to go to grad school after college. I went to a small and entirely undistinguished college for undergrad, and I didn’t really have any trouble getting into a good law school. The reason, though, is that I did extremely well in college - graduated summa, active on campus, glowing recommendations and so on. I also did well on the LSAT.
So, I would say that if you’re planning on graduate or professional school, where you go to college is much less important than what you do while you’re there.