Copying music to hard drive question

[scott62]

Whenever I buy a new cd the first thing I do is back it up on my hard drive. I recently bought a job lot from Ebay, a couple of albums I wanted and a single I already have but the price was too good to pass up on. So I put the albums onto my hard drive. No problems so far. After listening to the first cd I realised it wasn’t my cup of tea but a friend of mine would probably enjoy it so i gave it to him.

My question is do I now have to delete it from my computer since I no longer have the disc - am I breaking copyright law with regard to backing up my music.

As far as I understand, it is OK to back up your music as long as you don’t intend to make copies for profit.

So what is my situation here? Am I a cd pirate or would this not be a problem? And while I’m here what is the legality of buying cds off Ebay? I think it should be OK but I have a niggling doubt about it.

I’m not too worried about it, just curious.

[RealityChuck]

@scott62

Whenever I buy a new cd the first thing I do is back it up on my hard drive. I recently bought a job lot from Ebay, a couple of albums I wanted and a single I already have but the price was too good to pass up on. So I put the albums onto my hard drive. No problems so far. After listening to the first cd I realised it wasn’t my cup of tea but a friend of mine would probably enjoy it so i gave it to him.

My question is do I now have to delete it from my computer since I no longer have the disc - am I breaking copyright law with regard to backing up my music.

Sure. The first time you copied the disk onto your hard drive, it was a copyright violation.

As far as I understand, it is OK to back up your music as long as you don’t intend to make copies for profit.

Nope. You have no legal right to make any copies unless you hold copyright. There is nothing that allows an individual to make backup copies of anything without permission.

Take a look at the disclaimer that comes with any software you buy. It specifically grants you the right to put the software on your computer. If you already had that right, why would they have to grant it to you? Libraries are allows to make archive copies, but not individuals.

In addition, the violation in all copyright cases is in making the copy. What you do with it afterwards is irrelevant. You can’t make a copy without permission no matter what you do with it. The fact that you didn’t sell copies for profit does not excuse any violaton. Many people have the misconception that selling the copied item is what’s illegal, when copying the item is what violates copyright.

So what is my situation here? Am I a cd pirate or would this not be a problem?

Technically, yes. But it’s probably not a problem since someone would have to find out about it and be willing to sue. It’s probably not worth their effort for a single copy.

And while I’m here what is the legality of buying cds off Ebay? I think it should be OK but I have a niggling doubt about it.

As long as they’re original CDs, it’s perfectly legal. Copyright only involves making a copy (that’s why it’s called copyright). If you buy a CD, the disk is your to do whatever you wish to do – as long as you don’t wish to make a copy.

So you also were well within your rights to give the CD to a friend. Once you have a legal CD, you can treat it like anything else you own – except for making copies.

[SkipMagic]

Off to GQ.

[slortar]

@scott62

My question is do I now have to delete it from my computer since I no longer have the disc - am I breaking copyright law with regard to backing up my music.

As far as I understand, it is OK to back up your music as long as you don’t intend to make copies for profit.

So what is my situation here? Am I a cd pirate or would this not be a problem? And while I’m here what is the legality of buying cds off Ebay? I think it should be OK but I have a niggling doubt about it.

I’m not too worried about it, just curious.

If you own the physical medium and you do not distribute it, you’re fine. I guess you could argue otherwise,* but in any case once you get rid of the medium, you no longer have the right to the music and you should delete it from any of your alternate mediums (hard drive, flash players, tapes you’ve copied it onto, whatever).

Downloaded songs are typically attached to one specific individual, so if you transfer them to your friend, they too should be deleted from your drives.

I see no problem with ebaying cd’s, used or new. The main issue is making sure you’re not buying from a bootlegger. This is the primary reason why I never buy movies from Ebay any more, because I got sick of sellers telling me that their product was the official release, only to get a package covered with chinese and region zeroed. :smack:

• According to Chuck’s take on the laws, there’s an awful lot of people with iPods out there who are hardened criminals, including our very own President.

[RumMunkey]

You have no legal right to make any copies unless you hold copyright.

I gotta shout CITE on this.

If it were true, would Apple be allowed to distribute iTunes and iPod? After all, they are tools specifically designed to make copies of your music.

According to your argument, wouldn’t *any *MP3 player manufacturer be in violation of… well, something?

[SkipMagic]

@RealityChuck

Nope. You have no legal right to make any copies unless you hold copyright. There is nothing that allows an individual to make backup copies of anything without permission.

Take a look at the disclaimer that comes with any software you buy. It specifically grants you the right to put the software on your computer. If you already had that right, why would they have to grant it to you? Libraries are allows to make archive copies, but not individuals.

You’re incorrect about individuals not being able to make archival copies of software:

@U.S. Copyright Office

Can I backup my computer software?
Yes, under certain conditions as provided by section 117 of the Copyright Act. Although the precise term used under section 117 is “archival” copy, not “backup” copy, these terms today are used interchangeably. This privilege extends only to computer programs and not to other types of works.

Under section 117, you or someone you authorize may make a copy of an original computer program if:

[ul]
[li]the new copy is being made for archival (i.e., backup) purposes only;[/li][li]you are the legal owner of the copy; [/li][li]and any copy made for archival purposes is either destroyed, or transferred with the original copy, once the original copy is sold, given away, or otherwise transferred.[/ul][/li]You are not permitted under section 117 to make a backup copy of other material on a computer’s hard drive, such as other copyrighted works that have been downloaded (e.g., music, films).

It is also important to check the terms of sale or license agreement of the original copy of software in case any special conditions have been put in place by the copyright owner that might affect your ability or right under section 117 to make a backup copy. There is no other provision in the Copyright Act that specifically authorizes the making of backup copies of works other than computer programs even if those works are distributed as digital copies.

From here.

I suspect you may also be wrong about not being able to make a backup of music CDs; however, I’d have to do more searching to support or disprove that suspicion.

[RealityChuck]

@RumMunkey

I gotta shout CITE on this.

U.S. Copyright Law (Chapter 1 - Circular 92 | U.S. Copyright Office):

Section 106: "Subject to sections 107 through 122, the owner of copyright under this title has the exclusive rights to do and to authorize any of the following:

(1) to reproduce the copyrighted work in copies or phonorecords;"

Note the words “Exclusive rights.” No one else has that right.

The exceptions mentioned are

Section 107 “fair use,” but copying an entire work has never been ruled fair use, so that doesn’t apply.
Secion 108 “Reproduction by libraries and archives”: only applies to libraries or archives, not individuals.
Section 109 “Effect of transfer of particular copy or phonorecord” This says you can sell or transfer a legal copy, as I indicated you could.

The rest are techincal and do not aply

110. Limitations on exclusive rights: Exemption of certain performances and displays

111. Limitations on exclusive rights: Secondary transmissions

112. Limitations on exclusive rights: Ephemeral recordings

113. Scope of exclusive rights in pictorial, graphic, and sculptural works

114. Scope of exclusive rights in sound recordings (This merely says that the copyright holder exclusive right is limited to preventing copies being made, which affirms what I said).

115. Scope of exclusive rights in nondramatic musical works: Compulsory license for making and distributing phonorecords

116. Negotiated licenses for public performances by means of coin-operated phonorecord players

117. Limitations on exclusive rights: Computer programs

118. Scope of exclusive rights: Use of certain works in connection with noncommercial broadcasting

119. Limitations on exclusive rights: Secondary transmissions of superstations and network stations for private home viewing

120. Scope of exclusive rights in architectural works

121. Limitations on exclusive rights: reproduction for blind or other people with disabilities

122. Limitations on exclusive rights; secondary transmissions by satellite carriers within local market

Now, you know where the law is. Why don’t you read it and see if there’s anything that allows the copying of a CD to a hard drive?

If it were true, would Apple be allowed to distribute iTunes and iPod? After all, they are tools specifically designed to make copies of your music.

So? Xerox makes copiers, which are machines designed specifically to make copies of written materials, which can be a copyright violation. The argument for Apple and MP3 players is that they can be used for legal copying of material, and it isn’t their fault that people are using them illegally.

If, for instance, an artist puts up a song on their webside and says, “Download this,” then you are not doing anything illegal; it’s clearly implied, if not outright stated, that you have the right to put the song on your computer or MP3 player. And, of course, you pay for the right to download music from iTunes.

But just because a tool can be used in an illegal manner (and copyright is a civil tort, not a criminal one) does not mean it gets banned if there are also legal uses for it.

@Skipmagic

You’re incorrect about individuals not being able to make archival copies of software:

You are right; I was referencing an older version of the law. However, that only applies to computer programs, not music, and it seems clear from the wording of Section 114 that nothing has changed. But feel free to research it further.

[Bookkeeper]

Note that the OP is in the UK, so discussions of US copyright law do not apply to his situation. For example, Canadian law allows me to make a backup copy of my CDs or to copy them to a computer/iPod/etc. as “fair use” copying, which I believe is illegal under US law.

[Kal]

Amusingly enough, here’s what the RIAA’s website says: :

If you choose to take your own CDs and make copies for yourself on your computer or portable music player, that’s great. It’s your music and we want you to enjoy it at home, at work, in the car and on the jogging trail.

Things are a bit more complicated and contradictory than that really.

[SkipMagic]

@Bookkeeper

Note that the OP is in the UK, so discussions of US copyright law do not apply to his situation.

Oh, yeah, I guess that would be important. Sorry, scott62, I didn’t see you were hanging out in the U.K.

[Harmonious_Discord]

@Bookkeeper

Note that the OP is in the UK, so discussions of US copyright law do not apply to his situation. For example, Canadian law allows me to make a backup copy of my CDs or to copy them to a computer/iPod/etc. as “fair use” copying, which I believe is illegal under US law.

They still are adding a copyright tax on all blank media capable of storing music or video and dividing it up are they not?

[scott62]

@SkipMagic

Oh, yeah, I guess that would be important. Sorry, scott62, I didn’t see you were hanging out in the U.K.

Absolutely no problem, someone’s gotta live here after all!!

[Gfactor]

In its decision Friday, the board decided to allow personal copies on a hard drive until a fee ruling is made specifically on that medium or until the courts or legislature tell regulators to rule otherwise.

“Until such time, as a decision is made on hard drives, for the time being, (we are ruling) in favor of consumers,” Majeau said.

http://news.com.com/2100-1025-5121479.html

“As far as computer hard drives are concerned, we say that for the time being, it is still legal,” said Claude Majeau, secretary general of the Copyright Board.

Id.

Actual decision: http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/decisions/c12122003-b.pdf

http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/news/c20032004fs-e.html (Explanation of levy system)
http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/decisions/c21122005-b.pdf (Levy system continued indefintely)

[GorillaMan]

It would be nice if the BPI (=British RIAA) had the answers for the OP among its long explanation of what you’re not allowed to do.

[Gfactor]

My previous post deals with Canadian copyright law. :smack:

UK law seems less clear on the topic:

P-01: UK Copyright Law fact sheet :: The UK Copyright Service

[Gfactor]

Closer:

It is important to remember that just buying or owning the original or a copy of a copyright work does not give you permission to use it how you wish. For example, buying a copy of a book, CD, video, computer program and so on, does not necessarily give you the right to make copies (even for private use), play or show them in public.

http://www.patent.gov.uk/copy/c-other/c-usebuy.htm

**It is allowed to make single copies ** or take short extracts of works when used for research that you do not make any money from or from private studying, educational course or even as a hobby.

(Emphasis added.)
http://www.patent.gov.uk/copy/c-manage/c-useenforce/c-useenforce-use/c-useenforce-use-exception/c-useenforce-use-exception-research.htm

See my disclaimers and general idiocy above. This is not legal advice.