I have seen and noticed the other day that religious groups have various logos on t-shirts and other clothing that is an apparent copyright infringement. In particular, a lady was wearing a shirt that said Christ in the form of the Crest logo. To me, this is obvious. If I were to put out T-shirtst that said Crust or Crap in the Crest logo, I’d be sued to some extent. At least a cease and desist. Why is it that religious groups can get away with this? Is it because the companies invovled don’t want to sue the ‘good’ religious groups?
I’m not a lawyer, but. . .
If I were P&G and you put out a shirt with a logo that said “Crust” or “Crap”, I’d claim that you were trying to disparage my product and sue you on that basis. Since “Christ” isn’t disparaging my brand, and won’t be confused with it (another toothpaste, for example) the grounds for a lawsuit would be pretty shaky.
Ok, I understand the disparaging thing. But, I’m sure that someone would find religious slants on a commercial item offensive. My biggest beef is that if I were to make t-shirts that used the logos from large companies, (ie Coca-Cola, Mars candy…etc) and put religious tilt on it, that would be fine, right? But if I were to do the same thing, but not use religious icons, would I still be able to do that? What if I am of a different religion? Can I make the Coke logo look like an ad for Wicca? I’m just curious as to why no one stops these guys. And isn’t stealing a bad thing?
As was ably pointed out by John Kennedy in the forum on Cecil’s Columns, wherein this question was originally posted, this isn’t a copywright question (its about trademarks), and it probably isn’t trademark infringement because you aren’t attempting to use the altered trademark to sell anything close to a tooth care product.
Someone who deals with trademark issues can give you more information as to the complete ins and outs of the situation.
Well, I’ve seen plenty of mutilated heavy metal logos. I’m sure bands like Slayer don’t like to see their logo mangled into “Savior”. And I’ve seen “Megalife” (in the Megadeth logo) and “Metallichrist”.
P&G for years had to deal with the urban legend that their logo was “satanic.” I suspect that the LAST thing their PR department wants to have to deal would be news that they’d sued someone for altering the Crest logo to read “Christ.”
The shirts, whether for Crest or heavy metal bands, are at least theoretically legally defensible as parody.
It would be a hassle to bring suit against the “infringers,” it would be bad PR, and after all that they might lose.
Torq has it right. It a matter of whether the trademark holder wants to sue whoever’s infringing. Not seeing the shirt, I can’t be sure, but by your description, it seems probably that P&G has grounds – if they want to.
It doesn’t matter if the trademark is used in a positive or negative sense (though a negative one will bring the lawyers on more quickly). Most companies assume that any use of their trademark by others hurts the value of that trademark and will ask you to stop.
Also, if the company doesn’t know about the infringement, they don’t have to defend it. So they can turn a blind eye (“T-shirt? What T-Shirt?”) and their trademark will still be protected. I’d guess P&G either doesn’t know about it – or doesn’t officially know about it, and aims to keep it that way.
“East is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does.” – Marx
The most extreme example of a comp protecting their trademark is Pebble Beach. Their trademark is the Lone Cypress. It’s a real tree on a rock in PB. Any artist who draws, photographs, etc, that tree on that rock is sued by PB. In '99 they did that, sued an artist, took all his work & forbid him to ever do a picture of it again.
The keywords in trademark law are “likelihood of confusion.”
A t-shirt with the word “Christ” looking like the Crest ™ toothapste logo isn’t going to confuse people. It’s not like someone is going to go to the store and say, “Hmm, should I buy Crest or Christ toothpaste?”
Torq- There ya go ! Parody! C’mon, this is the Straight Dope. I cannot be the only one weaned on MAD Magazine around here. MAD DID infact do a parody of famous brands, and…>Crust< was one of them. I bet they never got sued by P&G, either.
I think (WAG, I’m not an attorney) that there is a ton of case precedence for parodies.
Christ, on the other hand? I have no idea. Lawyers?
Cartooniverse
" If you want to kiss the sky, you’d better learn how to kneel. "
First, I must say, I’m a working class slob and I don’t really know or care about the difference between copyright and trademark (although maybe I should, because my initials are TM, so everything is mine!!!) DSYoungEsq: I moved this over to General Questions as per Mr. Kennedy’s request. I didn’t change anything because I didn’t want to lose anything from what I’d written originally. But thanks for the commment. Cartooniverse: About the MAD mag comment: Only Mad Mag readers see the parody, so therefore only a small percentage of the people see the parody. Wearing an article of clothing forces others to see this ‘parody’ and are therefore unwilling victims, if you will. You and I may not be offended by religious material, but others might, and if it was a vulgar (you define that) someone would be offended. Yes, it’s a free country as long as you don’t piss the wrong person off, or are in the military. Guanolad: Yes, maybe they did get permission. But at the Christian store at the mall in the town I formerly lived in, there were many, many t-shirts and most of them were contemporary, as in, the lastest fads… if you see what I mean.
I guess my question is, if I make something, be it a t-shirt or whatever, using the creative talents of a major company for the benefit of my financial status (which, believe me, there is no business that desires not to make a profit and christians are not exempt,) is it legal? If so, I believe that I’ll start using your trademarked material and make money.
This T-shirt parody does not only happen with Christian shirts. For instance we all know what the Ford logo looks like right ? I have seen shirts with the exact same design and lettering that say “Freak”. I doubt very seriously that those people got permission from Form Motor Company before they put their shirts on sale. It would seem that you cannot copywrite a design. Then again, I am no lawyer . . .
You can’t copyright a design unless it’s some. You trademark a design if you’re selling something that is identified with the design (like a Ford automobile.)
You can also patent a design, but that’s an entirely different matter.
$325 is the basic fee if you want protection in one class. There are a lot of other fees however that you will most likely end up paying.
Right now renewals are $400 per class. The trademark is good for 10 years, but you can keep renewing it in perpetuity as long as you are using it.
Thanks Bob, I get estimates from around $275 up. At least the trademark people have a free online search now instead of having to pay people $250 up to search for you.
How about Calvin peeing on the rear windows of some trucks and cars? I’m sure that was used without permission. Was that stopped or considered okay, did the cartoonist complain?
Oh, I’m gonna keep using these #%@&* codes 'til I get 'em right.
The “Peeing Calvin” is probably being sold without Bill Patterston’s blessing. However, no one is going around enforcing it.
Your trademark is only as effective as you want it to be.
Try selling some non-licensed Harley-Davidson or Disney stuff and see how rigorously some people enforce their intellectual property rights.
Harley-Davidson even tried to patent the noise that their motorcycles made, but I don’t know if it got approved. Sounds can be patented. The sound you hear at the beginning of films with THX sound is patented.