Coronavirus general discussion and chit-chat

I’ll bet a lot of them would sign up to go on a cruise and live with other people who won’t be nagging them about masks and vaccinations and all that nonsense.

Hell, they won’t even have to wash their hands after taking a dump, FREEDUM!!!

I misread that as defend Planned Parenthood and was thinking “huh, one of those progressive antivaxxers in the wild - don’t run into many on the COVID issue but I guess it was one of the Marin county-style vaccines-causes-autism crowd.” Then I re-read it - makes more sense now :slight_smile:.

Though completely irrationally I sorta wish it were a progressive anti-vaxxer, just for the weirdness points. There was certainly shit-ton of them at one time, but I don’t know if the lefty anti-vaxxers are as het up about COVID-19 vaccines as they are about measles vaccines. Probably, I guess.

Definitely. I know a couple. One, a long-time anti-vaxxer, swears her cousin who got vaccinated broke her collar bone because of the vaccine: after the second jab, the cousin got dizzy and fell down a flight of stairs. So in addition to the vaccine altering your DNA and putting dangerous chemicals into your body (She eats only organic, non-GMO foods.), it makes you fall down stairs! She’s an environmentally-conscious progressive, well-educated (former nurse-practitioner) feminist–all good, right?–who sells shungite to help others fend off the “terrifying” effects of 5G.

She believes COVID is real and dangerous, but she’s a fearful sort who’s distrustful of the government and big corporations, especially “Big Pharma.” That, I guess, is the intersection where the progressive and conservative anti-vaxxers meet.

This describes my older sister to a T. She’s also a former nurse-practitioner who now believes that western medicine is all about controlling the masses. But since her job requires her to travel, I’m guessing that she will be required to get the vaccine, and she can’t afford to quit or retire. It will be interesting to see what she decides to do.

This article is interesting (maybe paywalled):

There are lessons to learn from the museum’s hygiene-related holdings, Rupprecht said, particularly about how often the same debates recur throughout the history of medicine: Often, these debates turn on questions of privacy, individual freedom and the best way to communicate health information to a skeptical public…

Smallpox vaccination was eventually made mandatory in many places, including in parts of the United States and what is now Germany. “We’re very happy today that smallpox doesn’t exist any more,” Rupprecht said. “Because, really, millions, mostly children, died.” But this was only achieved by making vaccination compulsory, she added, which was controversial at the time, much as proposed vaccine mandates are today. The arguments are still the same, she added. “The main question is: What is to be regarded as more important? The assumed protection of the whole society by vaccination, or the freedom of each individual to decide for himself?”

Aha, found what gave me the impression (or at least the kind of thing that did): a quote from the study linked below:

“We cannot reject that [cloth masks] have zero or only a small impact on symptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infections.”

I don’t see how that impression could’ve resulted if cloth masks had any sort of appreciable impact. And given that paper masks, which plenty of people wear, must surely be worse than cloth masks, never mind gaiters and such, how is my original statement not at least possible? Shouldn’t we at least consider making surgical masks to be the bare minimum to have an impact on this hugely raging pandemic?

What do you mean by “paper masks”? The only masks i see that look like paper are surgical masks.

I agree that gaiters and the such are almost certainly useless.

That study concludes that cloth masks have variable efficacy, not that they never work. There are tons of nice three-layer, well-fitted cloth masks out there that work as well as surgical masks for source control. Other fitted cloth masks with filters work even better than surgical masks. Even gaiters are not bad if they’re doubled-up. By the way, not all surgical masks are high-quality. In that study, people were provided good surgical masks.

The one on the left in the top picture here: Comparison of Mask Standards, Ratings, and Filtration Effectiveness – Smart Air

You can’t tell by looking whether someone is wearing a surgical mask or what you are calling a paper mask. I haven’t seen those for sale, honestly, although it’s not what I’ve been looking for. When you see me wearing something like that, it’s a rated surgical mask.

I’m more concerned with the thin cloth masks I often see.

That being said, the masks I am more excited about right now are KF94, Korean masks. They are the goldilocks mask, imo. Nearly as light as a surgical mask. Nearly as protective as an N95 mask. And because of the boxy shape, more comfortable than either.

Here’s a source that’s supposed to be reputable:

My choice:

What’s a “cloth mask” for purposes of that study in Bangladesh? :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

I would imagine not the double-layer cloth masks I paid nearly $20 each for as soon as mask mandates were adopted in my area last year and I’m still using. I’ve had four masks pretty much since then, with one always in my pocket, at least one clean one on a hook at home, and the rest cycling through the laundry as needed. I’d feel like these people if I was doing otherwise.

My husband and I are fully vaccinated and have been diligent about mask wearing, we’re also retired, so we don’t go out much. Because of chronic back pain, I do my grocery shopping online, for delivery. About my only outing consists of two personal training sessions per week to strengthen my back and improve my balance.

I recently spent the better part of the day at the hospital while my husband underwent an outpatient procedure. A few days later, I woke up with a sore throat and post nasal drip. No fever, cough, or malaise. The sore throat persisted for a few days, so I had a virtual visit with a nurse practitioner. Who knew that a sore throat is considered a possible symptom of covid? She ordered a covid test because of my time at a hot zone (the hospital).

Fortunately, I tested negative.

So now the common cold can earn you a covid test.

Glad to hear it and welcome to the Dope!

Well, it sounds like a sore throat and exposure to a hot spot is what can earn you a COVID test.

A quick observation from the UK.

We’re in a period of relative stability here. Life is pretty much normal (apart from hassles with international travel) and though cases are rising slowly, the number of deaths/day remains at a much lower level than in previous waves.
Vaccination coverage is high (though plateauing) especially amongst the vulnerable and we haven’t vaccinated 12-15 year-olds yet nor started with boosters.
The link between infection and death has certainly been broken to large extent and I wouldn’t be surprised if our decision to increase the gap between first and second doses has meant our protection is greater than in places where the initial vaccine several-week gap was strictly adhered to.

It feels to me as though we are already moving into a phase of “living with it”. That is certainly the general impression I get from discussions with friends and family. There’s a general understanding that eradicating this virus is never going to happen, ultimately no strategy at the moment exists that can keep the virus out of circulation whilst getting back to the life we had before. As the world is finding out.

Thankfully, any country that can mobilise a swift vaccine roll-out and maintain coverage through boosters etc. stands a chance of minimising the number of deaths even as cases rise. Imagine if none of the effective vaccines or treatments had come to pass? It was a very real possibility and it doesn’t bear thinking about.

I frequently see data showing how many people in an area have had one dose of vaccine versus how many have had two doses. Questions:

  1. Are those who got the one-and-done J&J vaccine generally counted as one dose or two?

  2. What percentage of people who get one dose never go on to get the second? Can I assume that almost all of those in the one-dose column go on to get the second dose? Are almost all of those in the “one shot” numbers newly vaccinated?

I mentioned elsewhere a coworker who got Covid, and so did his SO. They’ve both recovered. He was vaccinated as soon as possible after his recovery, and has also had his second shot. His SO had one dose after her recovery; but the last I heard, she was resistant to getting the second one.

What percentage of people who get one dose never go on to get the second? Can I assume that almost all of those in the one-dose column go on to get the second dose?

The New York Times daily report has shown the 2nd vax numbers pretty much synchronized with first vax at a consistent rate of 9-11% difference between the first and second over a long time. This suggests most are getting the 2nd as well as the first.

United States vaccinations

At least one dose Fully vaccinated
All ages* 63% 53%
12 and up 73% 62%
18 and up 75% 64%
65 and up 93% 82%

*Includes those not yet eligible for the vaccine.

Source: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention | Note: Figures include the U.S. territories and three countries with special agreements.

About 75.2 percent of adults have received at least one shot.

About this data
Sources: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, state governments, U.S. Census Bureau. The “all ages” group is based on all residents including children under 12, who are not currently eligible to be vaccinated.

Main page is Covid-19 Vaccinations: County and State Tracker - The New York Times

I tracked that in my state, by age band, for several months. Most people get the second dose, but there’s a persistent gap between the two as rates get high. The gap was just a few percent, but it was larger for the oldest cohort than for the next-to-oldest group, probably because the oldest people are less mobile. And I saw some gap in every age group.

(People who got J&J were counted as both “one dose” and “two doses”, so they aren’t responsible for any of the gap.)