Coronavirus general discussion and chit-chat

The Quarantine Zone
1705

A former University of Kentucky employee, Laurie Ann DeVore is suing the university trustees in federal court, saying she was forced to retire for refusing Covid-19 vaccination and the alternative, weekly Covid-19 testing. From the (paywalled) article:

"DeVore returned to work in-person as instructed on Aug. 2, 2021, and in September, was advised of a new policy at the university which required employees working on campus who had not received the vaccine to undergo mandatory weekly testing, according to court documents. “Due to deeply held religious beliefs, the plaintiff had not gotten the Covid vaccine,” the suit says. “Also due to her deeply held religious beliefs, (DeVore) objected to mandatory Covid testing.”

I’m reminded of the Washington State football coach who got fired for refusing to comply with a state vaccination mandate, having been refused a “religious” exemption. It turned out that the university had previously arranged for the coach to meet with an infectious diseases expert to discuss his concerns, during which meeting the coach reportedly spewed an array of antivax tropes, including questioning Bill Gates’ supposed involvement.

Can someone enlighten me on which religions forbid mandatory Covid testing (not to mention Covid-19 vaccination)? Aside from the antivax religion, that is.

1706

Scientologists and presumably Christian Scientists?

And while it wouldn’t be an official Church teaching, a Catholic could legitimately come to a moral decision that some medical procedures are off-limits for them (or pretty much anything - it’s supposed to happen after a long period of prayer, study and reflection).

But I’m pretty sure DeVore is mostly just an anti-social asshole.

1707

If that’s the case, religious exemption-seekers should have no problem with sharing that process. In the case of the fired Washington State football coach, Nick Rolovich, that evidently didn’t happen.

"No major religious denomination opposes COVID-19 vaccines, including the Roman Catholic Church, which has encouraged its followers – which include Chun – to get vaccinated. On the same day (the Washington governor’s) mandate was issued, Pope Francis said, “Getting vaccinated is a simple yet profound way to care for one another, especially the most vulnerable.”

“A church’s official stance, however, has no bearing on what can be a sincerely held religious belief in the state of Washington, according to Charlotte Garden, an associate law professor at the Seattle University School of Law and an expert in employment law. Rolovich would have needed to share examples of how his belief system was applied in other areas of his life as part of the exemption request process, according to the school’s website.”

A statement from his attorney suggests that Rolovich was exempt from having to go into such inconvenient details.

“(Rolovich did not bring up any religious beliefs he felt could be in conflict with taking a vaccine, Palmer (the infectious diseases expert) said.)”

“Rolovich’s attorney, Brian Fahling, took issue with Palmer’s interpretation of the coach’s primary concerns.”

“If that’s the inference that the doctor drew from his conversations with Nick, I would say he is fundamentally and inescapably wrong,” Fahling told ESPN Tuesday night. “He doesn’t know Nick. Nick is not going to go into his religious faith or his beliefs.”

Note also that other Washington State staffers have said they believed the coach’s objections were “political”.

Merely saying “God told me it was wrong” should never be a viable basis on which to get a religious exemption from vaccination. Falsely hiding behind religion sounds, well, sacrilegious.

1708

I find it a bit difficult to believe that is possible these days. One of the most contagious viruses in recorded history, striking in an interconnected world that can’t contain it, with immune escape? Why is just figuring that I have it not a safe assumption that an event like mine, which involved lots of people possibly doing traveling? The entire 45 or so minutes I was in line, I felt like I was surrounded by plague rats. (Though I do admit that I’ve also seen the news that a mask might not have done me a lot of good anyway in those circumstances, either,)

This is probably why I asked my previous question of how there can possibly be fewer cases than, like, 95% at this point: my perspective is that it’s everywhere and extremely contagious, so I don’t see how the transmission train can be broken, and it isn’t, because cases are still up and rising, and “everyone’s going to get it,”

1709

I don’t think there’s ever been any disease so contagious that 100% of people who stood near a person who had it caught it.

:person_shrugging:

1710

It’s very difficult to predict exactly who will get it. There are so many factors.

My wife has COVID right now, with moderate symptoms. I’ve had very close contact with her without a break. We sleep next to each other, with neither of us wearing masks. Nevertheless, I have not got it.

In fact I’ve heard of many cases where some people in a household get it, while others in the same household didn’t.

1711

No, but it boggles my mind that, with all the emphasis on how contagious this is and how few people are taking precautions, that 95% of gathering events, including commercial airline flights and (previously mentioned) sports events haven’t caused infection rates to explode even more than they are. I just assume that any time I go indoors, there’s at least a few people there who can spread Covid.

1712

I think the infection rates HAVE exploded. The sewage numbers are up, and the hospitalization rates are increasing, as well. We no longer have good “infection” numbers, as most people just self-test.

It still doesn’t mean that you have a 100% chance of getting seriously ill when you travel.

1713

The doctors I know say that in their opinions, airports are bad but planes themselves aren’t.

1714

Well, no, but I was just saying that infection seems like a safe assumption if you’re around a large number of people indoors for an extended period of time with no mask. It’s why we’re in this mess to begin with: people doing the same thing I did. Though I admit that acting like all such situations are uniformly hotbeds of disease seems both rational and irrational at the same time. (I think maybe that’s why I have my cognitive dissonance?)

1715

Vaccination and boosting mean you might get stll COVID but are much less likely to be hospitalized or die.

1716

This article argues that the plane isn’t that bad…except while on the ground. It recommends we have a rule that masks must be worn at either end of the flight, but may be taken off during flight when the air filters are turned on.

1717

Is the loss of sense of smell a “symptom” or “side effect” of Covid?

Suppose a person had Covid with mild symptoms, follows the CDC recommendations and 10 days later could theoretically go back to work. They feel OK at this point, except still no sense of smell. Is that worrisome at that point? Can they safely be back among people?

I can’t find specific guidance on this at the CDC web site or elsewhere so far.

1718

Lost of smell for several weeks used to be a pretty common side effect of covid. Sometimes it lasts for months and is considered a long covid symptom. People are usually no longer contagious.

1719

Question: What is the mechanism that causes a virus that has landed on a surface - say a kitchen counter - to degrade over time? Here’s one report from 2020 that discusses Covid time spans for different surfaces - but does not discuss the mechanism.

1720

As far as I can tell, you can essentially ignore surfaces in the context of COVID. The danger is airborne.

I still haven’t been able to break my habit of washing my hands every time I get the mail, but I’m pretty sure it’s pointless.

Corrections welcome.

1721

We now see that there are at least three ways that a virus can become inactive. Any disruption of the structure of key proteins, nucleic acids or the fatty membrane will render it incapable of infecting cells. What then happens to a virus particle, also known as a virion, that lands on a surface? Many possibilities. Heat speeds up molecular motion and the more molecules move around, the greater the chance that the links needed to maintain the secondary and tertiary structure of proteins are broken. This is why temperatures above 60C are lethal to most viruses. (Cold temperatures do not bother viruses, they can remain viable for a long time in refrigerators and freezers.)

Also, with time, the molecules of water embedded in the viral structure evaporate and that can disrupt the folding pattern of the proteins. Air is composed of oxygen and nitrogen molecules that have an affinity for hydrogen atoms on proteins and can cause some of the hydrogen bonds to dissociate. Oxygen can also engage in a chemical reaction with fats, much like it causes rancidity in cooking oils, and impair the protective effect of the fatty envelope. Ultraviolet light, particularly short-wavelength (UV-C), is energetic enough to break chemical bonds and has been shown to alter the structure of nucleic acids. Put all of this together and we can see why the viability of a virus to cause an infection wanes with time. That time, though, depends on several factors. The cleanliness of the surface is important. Viral particles can be embedded in grease, protecting them from outside agents. The composition of the surface can also play a role. Copper, for example, releases copper ions that have antiviral activity. Paper has residues of the chemicals used in pulping that can inactivate viruses. Steel and plastic seem to be more hospitable, but even here survival time is only a couple of days.

1722

That’s from April 8th, 2020.

1723

I believe it to still be accurate today. It’s not specific to COVID – it’s how virion structures in general degrade.

1724

But I don’t think it applies to covid. You catch covid through the air, not from surfaces.

Googling now, current guidance appears to be to clean like it’s April 2020 if you’re living with someone who has covid. Otherwise, disinfecting your home to prevent covid is “likely not needed.” Basically the same deal for any virus, I would imagine.

I mean, obviously, practice proper hygiene. But in terms of surfaces and handwashing, I landed at slightly more handwashing than I did in 2019, and each wash takes a little longer, but that’s pretty much it. I don’t disinfect anything to fight covid specifically, nor do I worry about covid germs specifically on public surfaces, like on door handles or whatnot. When I Fantastik my countertops, it’s just to keep them clean in general, just like I always did. When I touch something in public, I always assumed it was gross, long before covid. But not “Omg I must sterilize my hands right now!” gross, more like “I should wash my hands before I eat” kind of gross. Which is where I’m back to, now.

Think of it this way: That April 8th, 2020 article isn’t specific to covid because we didn’t know anything about covid yet. It’s just general virus hygiene advice. Which was exactly as true in 2019 as it was in 2020, and remains today. So in terms of surfaces, party like it’s 2019.