I have never, ever hit my son, and I never will. I don’t believe that striking a child is the only or best way to make an immediate point. We never had any trouble doing so, and we have a terrific, well-behaved kid.
I recognize, however, that there are parents who feel otherwise, and I believe there are “spanking” households where the kids don’t feel abused and the home doesn’t seem dysfunctional. I happen to think this is in spite of the spanking, not as a result of it. And I also believe there are plenty of households where the parents cross a line, be it ever so slightly, and the child feels abused, even if he wouldn’t use that word. I believe there are plenty of kids who grow up into adults and still remember the pain and humiliation of a particular act of corporal punishment, even if that one was the exception. As a general rule, I think, “Don’t create physical pain for your children” works quite nicely and keeps things in a safe place.
I think corporal punishment can work on some children, on others it’s no more effective than anything else.
When I was growing up I lived in a fairly small town. A typical punishment for misbehavior was getting swatted with a switch (google it if you don’t get the terminology.)
I can generalize that this did create a neighborhood of kids who didn’t talk back to their parents. And a neighborhood of kids who were, in general, respectful around adults.
Aside from that, we misbehaved just as much as the rest of the world when we could get away with it.
I don’t know that it made us better or worse either way. I think it made us more tolerable kids to be around for other adults. I don’t think it really affected our ultimate development into men and women. The more important stuff there was the passing on of values like honesty, integrity, hard work and et al.
It also meant if we were going to misbehave we sure as hell would never come clean about it, if the parents had direct evidence I’d take my switching but I sure as hell wasn’t going to martyr myself on the gallows :).
Anyways, I don’t think it’s immoral. And I also don’t think it causes any harm unless you take it to the actual level of physical beatings, which could cause emotional and developmental scars.
Aside from that, I don’t know if it’s a good policy or not. I’m undecided. I’d need to conduct experiments in the field to say for sure.
Right: it’s not even punishment in the sense that you expect the child to recognize taht hey have done something wrong and repent: it’s simple conditioning. And sometimes that’s appropriate.
But kids vary. It’s pride to think that the reason this worked on your kid but not on so many others is that you are such a better parent than those parents are. It’s not that. It’s that some kids respond beautifully to disapproval/are content to be redirected, and that some kids aren’t. And they seem to come out of the womb like that.
What would you have done if your methods hadn’t worked: what would you have done the third time they took the fork to the electrical socket, or unbuckled thier own car seat, or ran into traffic? The fifth time? the tenth? With many kids it never escalates to this, but if other things aren’t working, physical conditioning is a valid measure. If, on the other hand, it doesn’t work either–and some kids don’t respond to spankings the way others don’t respond to disapproval–then you move on and try something else.
On the other hand, I don’t really approve of using spankings as punishment: once the kids is too old for simple conditioning to work, then they are old enough to understand complex relationships between actiona and consequences, and other punishments should be used.
I would appreciate a cite that corporal punishment is an efficacious, recommended alternative for promoting certain behaviors. We can evaluate such cites for what they’re worth if you really want to keep this out of the realm of the anectodal. And if it’s as hit or miss as you suggest, why not exhaust all methods that don’t inflict physical pain on your child first?
And why don’t you approve of spankings as punishment? Do you assume that all kids have the level of understanding and react the same way your experience suggests? How prideful of you to imply you know best!
What is “I don’t believe that striking a child is the only or best way to make an immediate point. We never had any trouble doing so, and we have a terrific, well-behaved kid.” if not an anecdotal assertion that your way works better, and so should be a general principle extended to how every child is raised?
Because there’s a strong body of evidence that conditioning is effective on animals of all types, and in life-or-death situations efficacy is important? I am not saying it’s the first type of conditioning you should try–if disapproval works, that’s the better method–but if it becomes clear that a child doesn’t respond to that, I think that physical conditioning is viable option. You have to find quickly something that works: you can’t have the kid get out of the car seat and go for the door handle twice.
I said that when a child reaches the age-and that point may vary between children–where they have a level of understanding great enough that simple conditioning won’t work, then you have to find other methods because conditioning doesn’t work anymore. What method you find will vary from kid to kid and intelligent parents will experiemnt to find what works best with their child.
Please, let’s not back-pedal. In response to a post where I offered my opinion but also allowed that other parents did not agree with me to no real apparent bad effect, you said of me, “It’s pride to think that the reason this worked on your kid but not on so many others is that you are such a better parent than those parents are.” You didn’t say, “It’s wrong of you to think that for this particular area of parental guidance your way is the best.” You chided me for thinking I am a better parent than anyone who disagrees with me in this regard, when I said no such thing.
You think? Where’s that strong body of evidence that speaks to the efficacy of spanking?
What age is it where simple conditioning won’t work, even for a given kid? Simple condition always works to some extent, right? Why would you assume not for people everywhere? Isn’t it possible that simple conditioning is the best course for a given child throughout his childhood? Again, isn’t this prideful of you to actually–gasp!–offer an opinion that suggests otherwise?
Yes; nearly everyone in the history of the world has believed this.
Heck if “cause them to endure physical pain” is the benchmark, that includes taking kids hiking or canoeing knowing the kid will get blisters.
Um, no it wouldn’t. Protecting your kids from the pain of the real world is not the same as inflicting that pain on them yourself. It would require a pretty severe level of sociopathy to equate smacking your kid in the head with him bumping his head on a treebranch while hiking through the woods.
Are you including outside of punishment? Because every reasonable parent here subjects his child to the physical pain of vaccinations and other necessary injections. I sure hated to cause my kid the physical pain of having to have a blood sample taken to see if she had mono or some other infection, but it was necessary.
Those pains are necessary. There is no way, today, to avoid the pain of vaccination. Also, if you take your child running with you, the pain of the workout is also acceptable.
I still remain 100% opposed to physical punishment of a child. Children can be punished without physical pain.
I don’t have children. Still, I can’t imagine striking them to cause pain so they can learn a lesson.
I don’t have kids, but I was a kid once . I got the strap at school (across my hand, not my behind) more than once. I don’t believe it warped me.
I am in favour of limited corporal punishment. Why? Because it seems to have worked for thousands of years! Clearly, unless you are suggesting that parents only started loving their kids in recent times, smacking a kid and loving that same kid is not a contradiction.
In the particular case of my son and I, I don’t believe in corporal punishment. It wouldn’t work with him. Others may use it with their kids–their choice.
As far as corporal punishment in schools–God help the adult that lays hands (paddles, rulers, whatever) on my son. The legal mess that person would find himself/herself in would surely dissuade them from ever trying something like that again.
I don’t hit my son. Nobody else is allowed to, either.
I am a little surprised that people act that way. Like I said, we had corporal punishment all through my public school career. Parents could sign a form in the office to exempt there child from paddelingss but I don’t think any parents that I knew of ever did. Students also had a choice. They could exchange licks for detention or suspension Girls didn’t usually get paddled but guys, including me, always chose the paddling. It didn’t hurt all that badly although it was mildly humiliating, it got the point across, and it was over quickly. Padleings were done right after an infraction like after a series of class disruptions, tripping someone, breaking classroom equipment etc. It was done in the hall for all to hear so there wasn’t any chance of true abuse.
Oddly, serious stuff like fighting would get automatic suspension with no choice for paddling. Paddling wasn’t the uber-punishment in our school. It was a punishment in the middle of the scale and preferable over the others. Teachers were also considered to be on pare with parents during school hours. I see that philosophy has changed today and maybe that is a bad thing.
When I was in Catholic highschool, we had a dress-code. No blue jeans, and your shirts had to have a collar. This being the early punk rock days, my friends & I decided to push the dress-code as far as we could. One day I wore this crazy looking shirt with no collar.
There was this guy, I don’t know if he was an assistant principle, or hockey team coach, or just a teacher or what. But he was known as the mean, tough enforcer guy you didn’t want mad at you. He got sick of this punk thing, and on the day I went collar-less, he grabbed me, in front of everybody, shoved me against the lockers and told me that day was the last day I’d come to school dressed inappropriately.
I dunno. These days I guess you’d sue the guy, but for me it worked just fine. A stern talking-to? Detention? Note to mom? Whatever. His method worked great. It was immediate, and problem solved. I never went to school dressed inappropriately again.
YMMV, but I look back and think he handled it well.
My wrestling coach thought I was talking during one of those gory health class first aid movies. I wasn’t, but he proceeded to grab me by the collar and threw me out of the classroom and across the hall where my left shoulder hit the edge of the locker.
I landed a right cross that sent him sprawling back into the classroom and over a chair. The assistant principal witnessed the whole thing.
Punishment? None. In fact, I got to leave school early that day. No suspension. Nothing.
That same teacher was known for abusing kids in many other ways. In fact, he got his ass kicked more than twice that I know of.
Point being…some teachers abuse their authority when applying physical punishment. It probably doesn’t happen nearly as much now as it did when I went to school, but I’ve seen and experienced the excesses. I’ve seen kids choked and punched. Hair pulling was commonplace. I pulled another kid out of a melee where he was being hit by two teachers at a time.
As for your hockey coach/asst principal…the next day I’d be visiting the school, and I’d demand to see him to let him know that:
We’d see each other later in court, and
The next time he felt frisky and wanted to intimidate someone, he’d be welcome to try it with me.
I really don’t feel that dressing inappropriately warrants being manhandled.
I don’t suppose I need to worry much anymore about any teachers getting physical with my son. He’s 15, stands 6’1", and weighs 225. He isn’t a bully or anything–far from it. As fas as I know, my son hasn’t hit anyone in his life (other than me while boxing). He knows my feelings about teachers laying hands on kids, and I’m pretty sure that he’d tolerate it if some teacher struck him. It’s unlikely that he’d respond in kind, but if he did, he’d have my support.
I just wanted to chime in and say that I agree with this 100%. I have 3 sons, and they each respond to different tactics. We’ve employed corporeal punishment, and, given that our oldest is a fairly well-adjusted 14 year old, I don’t think we made too many mistakes along the way.
I think age matters a lot, as well as the child’s grasp of cause/effect. Frankly, that’s what corporeal punishment amounts too- making the child understand that their actions have repercussions. Usually, this punishment (swat on the behind, slap on the hand, pinch, what have you) is a substitute for getting hit by a car, electrocution, falling out of a window, cutting themselves, etc. I’m not a big fan of spanking a child ‘for being bad,’ especially since there are other methods available. But with younger children, they will often enter a cycle of screaming, crying, spinning, kicking, etc. that you have to short-circuit in order to get them under control. Corporeal punishment is the fastest way to do that.
However, as I said, each child is different. Some kids can be spanked from sunup to sundown, and it won’t impact behavior. Some can be cowed with just the threat of a spanking. Any decent parent will attempt to see the difference.
. I got the strap at school (across my hand, not my behind) more than once. I don’t believe it warped me.