You seem determined to keep missing the point. So let me ask you; would this have happened if it had been a government run prison? No, because the administration of a government run prison has no incentive to increase the amount of people in their prison. The warden gets paid the exact same amount regardless of whether his prison is 90% vacant or overfilled beyond its capacity. He has no profit incentive to increase his prison population so he’s not going to bribe any judges to sentence people to his prison.
I think I have amply demonstrated that corruption may still happen - it just might take a different form.
But hey, you have your hammer. Keep looking for nails.
Other types of corruption are individualistic. This type of corruption is systemic and will only occur in this type of system.
And I think I’ve already nailed it.
Couldn’t he profit the old fashioned way, by skimping on consumables like food and pocketing the difference?
It would be pretty difficult. Pretty much all purchasing is handled by contracted bids so everything is public record. You can’t simply not buy something and pocket the money - if you don’t buy it, there’s no money to steal. The only way to line your own pocket at government expense is to buy things openly and then resell them out the back door and hope you can fudge the inventory controls.
I don’t work for Luzerne County, but I have to deal on a regular basis with several people at the courthouse and they’re all grumpy as hell and walking on eggshells.
I don’t think the political climate here in NEPA is any more or less conducive to corruption than anywhere else. It’s a case of two corrupt men who were charismatic and smart enough to get themselves into a position of power, and thought they could do illegal things and never get in trouble for it.
Actually, Skrep’s not really all that popular around here. He’s made some major blunders (like appointing a buddy of his to head up the the Luz. Co. Correctional Facility, who had exactly zilcho experience running a prison; hilarity ensues) and been a driving force behind the dreaded Luzerne County property reassessment. The reassessment was badly needed because many properties were still in the tax records at 1970s values, but it was handled badly by untrained workers and resulted in some owners getting taxed through the roof while taxes on similar properties in the same neighborhoods didn’t change.
I’ll admit I didn’t know that Alabama had a law that allowed its sheriffs to pocket any unspent money from their budgets. That’s a really dumb idea. Most states eliminated things like that under civil service laws passed during the progressive era back before WWI. Apparently Alabama didn’t get the word.
But overall, I don’t think this disproves what I said. The problem at the Morgan County Jail was the same problem that existed at the PA Child Care facilities - the administrators had a profit incentive. I’ve never claimed that the government is a finished product. We need to pass a law and close the loophole that gave those sheriffs an incentive to pocket their budget. But it still shows the fundamental flaw with privatizing public services - it would take what’s a rare flaw and expand it into a universal feature.
They privatized a portion (the providing of meals) of the public system, and instead of opening it up to bits, simply gave it to the Sheriff. It is a long standing practice, going back to the days where a Sheriff’s wife would take care of meals for the few drunks in the local jail.
[Tom T. Hall]Well, they said,“Tomorrow morning you can see the judge then go.”
They let me call one person on the phone.
I thought I’d be there overnight so I just called my boss
To tell him I’d be off but not for long.
Well, they motioned me inside a cell with seven other guys.
One little barred up window in the rear.
My cellmates said if they had let me bring some money in
We ought to send the jailer for some beer.
Well, I had to pay him double 'cause he was the man in charge,
And the jailer’s job was not the best in town.
Later on his wife brought hot bologna, eggs and gravy.
The first day I was there I turned it down.
Well, next morning they just let us sleep but I was up real early,
Wonderin’ when I’d get my release.
Later on we got more hot bologna, eggs and gravy,
And by now I wasn’t quite so hard to please.[/Tom T. Hall]
And the regular Luzerne County Correctional hasn’t been known for its easy picking either.
But I think it’s also necessary recognize that “this type of system” was one where the state or county government had provided for no counsel, no appeals, and no restraints upon the power of the judges involved to structure the county’s detention policy. Had any of those checks and balances been in place, the opportunity for systemic corruption would likely have evaporated. So I’m not sure that one can really draw broader lessons from this scandal beyond simply that privately-run prisons are a bad idea within an authoritarian government structure.
Democracy Now is doing a story on it. It is about 5000 cases since 2002. They say that there are no charges against the jails that paid the judges. How can that be justified?
(Directed at Mr. Moto: )
In the 1970s and earlier the Republican Party was less monolithic. Not only were there moderate Republicans, there were actually characters known as liberal Republicans. A sliver of this tradition survives at the state level, where simple espousal of ideology and a phony loyalty to the same just won’t cut it.
National Republicans and their defenders are pretty stunted though.
Huh. Well, as nobody seems to be defending this mess, I don’t know what to make of party labels here. I could as easily ask, frankly, how this reflects on Democrats as they seem to be represented prominently in this scandal.
Fair-minded sort that I am, though, and mindful of the equal opportunity nature of Pennsylvania corruption, I won’t do that. And yes, Pennsylvania is a bit more corrupt than the average state. I can easily cite proof of that.
I’m a liberal Republican. There are still a few of us around.
Not in Washington DC.
I’m not trying to snark. There are a few Republicans in DC that are called moderate. None are called liberal. And at the state level, they are very rare and mostly retired.
That said, IIRC surveys show that very roughly 10% of self-identified Republicans call themselves liberal.
Yep. One or two hanging around in my old stomping grounds in Jefferson and Lewis County, and I think a couple in Oneida County as well – at the county level. I’m not sure if there are any left in Albany. Sherry Boehlert finally retired, I heard, so that’s effectively the last liberal Republican in the House, unless there’s someone I’m missing.