According to this article, it sounds like the officer was clearly breaking that requirement.
I don’t think “unfathomable” is really the word Chief Godbee is looking for, here.
Guns go off unexpectedly all the time. I’ve read many accounts over the years of guns in waistbands going off and shooting the victim in the groin or leg.
If this lady reached in for a hug and pulled strongly then of course the gun could go off. We don’t know exactly where her hands were or how they brushed up against the holstered gun. Typically the person wearing the gun gets hit, but in this case it was the person behind him.
It was just a bizarre freak accident. It is a tragic accident, but stuff like this happens.
You’ve never actually seen a gun, have you? It’s OK. We’re not judging.
Now, it may be a true statement that guns sometimes go off unexpectedly, but they do not do so without the trigger being pulled - intentionally or unintentionally. The officer’s issued weapon has a trigger pull of either 6.5 or 7 pounds.
Something pulled that trigger, and it wasn’t a hug.
No, it couldn’t. Guns aren’t designed or built where some slight, ambiguous pressure on the holster just sets them off.
No, either someone was playing/demonstrating with the gun, or it got knocked loose from its holster and the trigger was pulled in the attempt to regain control of the gun.
The gun did not just “go off”. This is actually the only fact of this case that we know for sure.
I’m all ears for the rest
of the story… [/PH]
Nothing in the article says that he was drinking and the only statements about the gun and holster were:
Police Chief Ralph Godbee told reporters Monday that Miller was dancing with the officer and touching his waist from behind when his holstered handgun fired, striking Miller in the chest.
Godbee says the gun was in a waist holster made of soft material. He says there is no evidence the officer fired the weapon, but he stopped short of saying Miller may have accidentally pulled the trigger.
Which part of those requirements was he clearly breaking?
Right now, based on what little we know, my money is on the cop having the gun in a cheap nylon or suede holster. What with the dancing and the sweating and the drinking and the hugging, the gun unsurprisingly fell out. If he’s fat and paired his cheap holster with a cheap, flimsy belt, a roll of flab is enough to have dislodged the gun just from normal movement. Anyway, I think the gun fell and somebody tried to catch it, resulting in the trigger being depressed and the gun firing at an unusual angle. Folks should be taught from an early age that if a gun or knife falls, you let it fall. Trying to catch them increases the chances of injury.
What disturbs me most about this story is how little time had passed before this became a campaign to sue the officer, city and likely the gun manufacturer and holster maker. All of the statements I’ve read include a statement by the mother that this never should have happened and someone is responsible. I see it as a freak accident that bears looking into even though the circumstances are unlikely to be replicated or have such dire results.
The modern judicial system being what it is, the case will settle out of court.
Oh, right. I should have snipped out the part where Bear_Nenno mentions drinking. I wasn’t talking about that. I have no idea if the guy was drinking or not.
The part I was claiming that the officer seems to have broken regulations is that the chief claimed the gun was in a soft material holster and that the woman set the gun off merely by touching the officer around the waist.
I was looking at the regulations posted earlier in the thread.
Specifically, I was looking at here:
Admittedly, I was working on the assumption that the department wouldn’t have approved a flimsy pistol-cozy of a holster that would allow a gun to be triggered while it was inside. Also, on reread - perhaps civilians don’t have to get permission from the department to keep their department-issued weapons in department-approved holsters? So I’m willing to retract the “clearly” while stating that perhaps the Detroit PD needs to take a long, hard, look at their holster-approval procedures.
I should also say - it appears that the article has been updated since I posted that link earlier this afternoon. The portion I quoted with Godbee’s remarks isn’t there anymore.
However, the new version of the article now contains this:
The longer this story sits, the worse it smells.
Here’s a direct link to this version of the article
HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost****
This article says the holster was a neoprene-like material.
They also quote a firearms expert:
It appears to me that there’s more here than meets the eye.
Guns that fire when they “fall” out of belts and waistbands is not mainly due to impact, but people grabbing to catch the gun and pulling the trigger in the grab motion. That’s how the Plaxico Burress scenario went down.
The simplest explanation is that Ms. Miller pulled the gun from the holster when she wrapped her arms around the officer from behind, either accidently or intentionally. As soon as the gun was removed the holster, one of her fingers entered the trigger guard while (at the same time) the muzzle swung 90 degrees toward her.
In other words, if the gun was on the officer’s right hip, the muzzle was pointing down (6 o’clock position) while in the holster, and the gun swung 90 degrees CW (to the 9 o’clock position) as Ms. Miller removed it from the holster. The gun pivoted on her finger that was within the trigger guard.
At least that’s my theory.
There very well might be. The Detroit Police Department does its share of turning a blind eye to police misconduct. I’m almost prepared to bet that the cop was drinking, and did something stupid with the gun, and this was conveniently ommitted from the official reports.
Unless something different comes out I tend to not believe this just due to the fact that the victim’s mother does not seem to be arguing about the official reports. It was apparently a party. I’m assuming that means there were more than 3 people there. Friends and family of the victim. No one is screaming cover-up.
A new story says a police official familiar with the investigation says she was on her knees doing “some type of ‘exotic dance’” and tugging at his waist. The mother says nonsense, eyewitnesses told the family that they were side-by-side and hugged when the gun went off. Maybe the people were embarrassed to tell her about the “exotic dance” or maybe the “official familiar with the investigation” is full of shit.
Is actually doesn’t say the holster has to be approved for plainclothes or off duty cops. On duty, it says “in a DPD issued or approved holster.” Off duty it says “carry their DPD issued or approved sidearm holstered.” The “issued or approved” bit pertains to the firearm, not the holster. So any holster will apparently do for off duty cops.
Only in our society would the fact that the other person was doing something sexual be a problem worth covering up.
This might explain the question I had, about if a lightweight (and thin) neoprene holster could ever be approved by any PD?
“THIS is your weapon, THIS is your gun. THIS is for killing, THIS is for fun!”
The standard DPD weapon is the Smith & Wesson M&P, which replaced the Glock-22 in about 2005. So depending on when this officer join the force and was issued his weapon it’s likely one or the other.
I’m having a lot of trouble understanding how this could have happened. Both weapons are famously safe and designed specifically for thing like this to not happen. **If the weapon was holstered and safetied **I really can’t see how this took place. Froget the angle (the bullet could be ricocheted off the floor) doesn’t it seem supremely unlikely that she could have removed the safety AND fired the gun accidentally?
Neither gun has an external thumb safety. Both have internal firing pin safeties that disengage when the trigger is pulled. Both guns have a secondary lever in the middle of the trigger that blocks the pull unless a finger(or something) is on the trigger doing the pulling.
I wonder if they’re misspelling her name, and it’s really “A-a.”