Could it be that Republican politicians have awakened?

Great Debates
21

[QUOTE=minty green]

[QUOTE=What Exit?]

Hopefully this will bounce the lot of them out in the next 2 elections and get the Republican party back into the hands of the moderates.
[/QUOTE]
I concur completely. The GOP desperately needs to be controlled by the Democrats, at the earliest possible opportunity. For instance, two and a half weeks from now.
[/QUOTE]

Not Quite what I meant. There are many moderate Republicans left. I am hoping that in 2008 or maybe by 2010 they can take back the party. But we seem to be going for the same early results. Right Wing tossed out of power. Please remember Republican does not mean Religious Right or evil. (Despite current leadership).

Jim

22

I interpreted that to mean the inherent selfishness of conservatism needs to be reined in by the more mature heads of moderates and liberals.

[QUOTE=Evil Captor]
Who’s this “we” you’re talking about, white man? I don’t remember voting for the motherfuckers even once.
[/QUOTE]

What he said.

23

[QUOTE=What Exit?]
Not Quite what I meant. There are many moderate Republicans left. I am hoping that in 2008 or maybe by 2010 they can take back the party. But we seem to be going for the same early results. Right Wing tossed out of power. Please remember Republican does not mean Religious Right or evil. (Despite current leadership).

Jim
[/QUOTE]
I guess their seeming inability to do anything about the authoritarian “conservatives without conscience” who are in control would make them sympathetic to the plight of the “moderate Muslims.”

24

Or maybe they are willing to accept the neocon stranglehold as long as they can get reelected. Maybe they are so captivated by the total control of the federal government that they don’t really give a damn about good government as long as they are the ones doing the governing.

Somehow I have the feeling the the Warners, McCains et al wouldn’t let out a peep if theings weren’t so obviously fucked up.

25

[QUOTE=David Simmons]
…as long as they are the ones doing the governing.
[/QUOTE]

Such as it is. I have to wonder who’s writing all these bills when it’s clear almost nobody is reading them, except the President’s lawyers while generating boilerplate for signing statements.

26

[QUOTE=David Simmons]
I guess their seeming inability to do anything about the authoritarian “conservatives without conscience” who are in control would make them sympathetic to the plight of the “moderate Muslims.”
[/QUOTE]

Not that she was a great Governor or Head of the EPA, but Christy Todd Wittman is a Moderate that started bashing the far right from about the time she resigned. It is tough for many of the more moderate Republicans in office to speak up as the Far Right will drive them out of office in many cases, but the cracks are getting larger. Governor: Arnold Schwarzenegger is seriously breaking with the Religious right on many subjects. There are others.

BTW: I believe Warner is a Dem, isn’t he?

27

[QUOTE=What Exit?]
Not Quite what I meant. There are many moderate Republicans left.
[/quote]
You, sir, are badly mistaken. There are no “moderate Republicans left.” There are merely fascists and enablers. Feel free to cast your ballot for either one.

One may also hope that monkeys may aviate out of one’s rectum. Said hope would be unavailing, yet hope springs eternal. Out of my ass. Via winged primates. Wearing aviator glasses.

Quite right. Your formulation omits the enablers of the first two categories (which, collectively, may be accurately described as “fascists”).

28

[QUOTE=What Exit?]
Not that she was a great Governor or Head of the EPA, but Christy Todd Wittman is a Moderate that started bashing the far right from about the time she resigned. It is tough for many of the more moderate Republicans in office to speak up as the Far Right will drive them out of office in many cases, but the cracks are getting larger. Governor: Arnold Schwarzenegger is seriously breaking with the Religious right on many subjects. There are others.

BTW: I believe Warner is a Dem, isn’t he?
[/QUOTE]
No. Warner (R-VA)is the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Commitee. With a Republican controlled Senate, that makes him a Republican.

Whitman doesn’t seem to get much press. I read one gripe of hers quite a while ago and nothing since. The difficulty with resigning and then criticising is that you are easily portrayed as a disgruntled ex.

Actually, I think for criticism to be effective it has to be from those with the power to make things tough. As long as congress keeps waving through everything that GW wants what does he care what Christy Wittman says?

29

[QUOTE=minty green]
You, sir, are badly mistaken. There are no “moderate Republicans left.”
[/quote]

While I understand the sentiment, I’ll have to disagree here. You can identify moderate Republicans because they’re the ones who are being called “liberals” and “appeasers” by the hardcore nutjobs on the right. Either that, or they’re the ones who have bailed on the GOP all together.

30

[QUOTE=rjung]
You can identify moderate Republicans because they’re the ones who are being called “liberals” and “appeasers” by the hardcore nutjobs on the right.
[/QUOTE]

Are they “hardcore nutjobs on the right” or are they the Republican Mainstream? I believe that in the last 20 years (especially the last 12 years) they’ve become the latter. (Well, I believe they’re both, actually)

I favored Republican candidates once. But I won’t vote for them anymore, at least on a national level. And locally, the Republican candidates tout “family values”, vote to restrict access to contraception, and are pushing a state constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage and civil union. So I won’t vote for them.

Around here, a “moderate” republican is one who is willing to allow abortion if the life of the mother is threatened.

31

Let’s not forget Sue Collins and Olympia Snowe from the great state of Maine. If you look at their records overall, and the state of the Republican Party today, I suppose you could be forgiven for calling them RINOs. I myself can’t understand why they don’t just go indy, but perhaps they feel they can do more good from within than from without.

32

[QUOTE=Qadgop the Mercotan]
Are they “hardcore nutjobs on the right” or are they the Republican Mainstream? I believe that in the last 20 years (especially the last 12 years) they’ve become the latter. (Well, I believe they’re both, actually)

I favored Republican candidates once. But I won’t vote for them anymore, at least on a national level. And locally, the Republican candidates tout “family values”, vote to restrict access to contraception, and are pushing a state constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage and civil union. So I won’t vote for them.

Around here, a “moderate” republican is one who is willing to allow abortion if the life of the mother is threatened.
[/QUOTE]

In NJ and NY our Moderate Republicans are usually Socially liberal by Right Wing Standards. Whether it is Thomas Kean and Son, Giuliani, Christy Todd Whitman or Mayor Bloomberg on NYC who is barely a republican at all, and well like by most moderates from both parties. I think my view of hope for my party is based on the fact, that in my local area, it is still a very good party. The National level is scary.
I understand your position of course.
If a true moderate raises his head up by you, I hope you will consider voting for him, as I do not think the US can afford one of the two parties to remain hostage to the Religious Right.

David Simmons, I thought you meant Mark Warner, hopefully you will understand my confusion. He is the better-known Warner, at least to me.

minty green, I lost my reply to you last night in the outage. I will try again.
There are many moderate Republicans, Rockefeller Republicans or Green Republicans {like me}, that have voted Dem or Green Party in the last several Presidential elections as we will not vote for or support the religious right. Maybe we are overwhelmingly in the North East and California, but we do exist in good size numbers. So are we to be painted by your broad brush as Fascists and enablers also?

Loopydude, this might be a North East disconnect from the rest of the country. You and I seem to believe and know that moderates are still around in large numbers, but posters from the South and Mid-West appear to have different experiences that is backed up by the horrible make-up of the current congress.

Jim

33

[QUOTE=What Exit?]
You and I seem to believe and know that moderates are still around in large numbers…
[/QUOTE]

Perhaps not large enough for my tastes. At any rate, I’m sure we can agree that they at least exist in some number that should not be completely ignored. My impression of the GOP, in aggregate, isn’t mitigated much by the mere existence of these moderates, I’m afraid. It’s a disaster, and I wish the moderates would disassociate themselves so that my support for those individuals cannot be conflated with their affiliation.

34

[QUOTE=Loopydude]
Perhaps not large enough for my tastes. At any rate, I’m sure we can agree that they at least exist in some number that should not be completely ignored. My impression of the GOP, in aggregate, isn’t mitigated much by the mere existence of these moderates, I’m afraid. It’s a disaster, and I wish the moderates would disassociate themselves so that my support for those individuals cannot be conflated with their affiliation.
[/QUOTE]

I understand your sentiments, however, third parties always fail {except the Republicans}. Even the late great Bull Moose party failed. So I have to believe it is better to retake control of the party. The Party of the 50s to 70s was much more moderate and even the 80s was not too bad. It has spiraled downhill since. Party leadership invited the Devil in (in the guise of the Falwellians) and lost control of the party. I cannot see a third party succeeding. This is not yet the second coming of the Whigs.

Jim

35

[QUOTE=Loopydude]
Let’s not forget Sue Collins and Olympia Snowe from the great state of Maine.
[/quote]
I haven’t forgotten about them. They’re enablers. If you were to come up with a list of the 10 most radical policies of the Bush administration, I’m quite confident they voted for at least 9 out of 10 of them, and probably all 10.

Expressing concern about torture is rather pointless if you vote to allow it.

If you vote for those who enable the fascists you don’t vote for, then you’re still an enabler.

36

Isn’t it about time for Mainers (Maineians? Maineites?) to realize that the Republican Party has left them?

37

Maine has always been a bit of an oddball, politically, and it’s largely forgotten or ignored by Democrats and Republicans alike anyway, due to its small size, location, and virtual lack of any major industry besides tourism. I think Mainers in general return the favor, as far as political loyalties go, and will vote however it pleases them, with relatively little regard for party. Perot managed to edge out Bush in ME in '92, for instance, and even Clinton only got about 38% of the vote there, as the race was remarkably close to evenly-split. ME has been one of the few states with independent governors, as well (Angus King being the most recent example). Maybe “as goes Maine, so goes the nation” sometimes, but I’m convinced that’s pretty much an accident. Maine has always been a second thought at best for whoever was in power. It’s nothing short of astonishing to me it’s managed to field as many recent politicians of note as it has.

38

[QUOTE=Loopydude]
Perhaps not large enough for my tastes. At any rate, I’m sure we can agree that note: moderate Republicans] they at least exist in some number that should not be completely ignored.
[/QUOTE]
Only ignored by the leadership of the Republican party?

39

[QUOTE=spoke-]
Isn’t it about time for Mainers (Maineians? Maineites?) to realize that the Republican Party has left them?
[/QUOTE]

Maine-iacs

40

[QUOTE=Qadgop the Mercotan]
And locally, the Republican candidates tout “family values”, vote to restrict access to contraception, and are pushing a state constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage and civil union. So I won’t vote for them.

Around here, a “moderate” republican is one who is willing to allow abortion if the life of the mother is threatened.
[/QUOTE]
Wisconsin used to be more like Minnesota with its Democratic-Farmer Labor Party. Robert M. LaFolette was nominally a Republican but formed the Progressive Movement and was elected governor. Wisconsin was still quite socialistic up until at least WWII.

What happened?

From the sound of your post I might have to start denying I was born there. The place seems to have gone to the dogs since I left.