You beat me to it. Thank you. That Passion movie should have used Greek instead of Latin and they didn’t even use the right dialect of Latin.
Well, Romans would have spoken to Romans (Pilate to his wife, soldiers to other soldiers) in Latin. Greek was what they used to (apart from scholarship) communicate with foreigners, whose own native language might not be Greek, but who knew it is a second language. Pilate would have spoken Greek to the priests, or to Herod.
Kind of like English today.
Of course not. Much like Zog, he’d have to use a complex system of tapdancing and farting to communicate with us. And then, of course, someone would brain him with a golf club. Poor Jesus.
Nope, at least according to Orthodox thought. One of the Eastern commentators – I think it was Theophylact – stated that Christ always possessed His full power and faculties, but merely chose to gradually manifest them, so as to appear as an ordinary man, at least at first. So yes, He would have understood English.
How about FORTRAN?
Not quite Herod was educated in Rome, so would have been fine talking in Latin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herod_Antipas
FORTRAN would be a snap, though I suspect if someone showed Him COBOL He would smite it as an abomination to the LORD.
What dialect were the Romans in The Passion speaking? Church Latin?
Yes…with thick Italian accents.
I thought that the educated greek people spoke greek to each other in private. Because it was a better language for that kind of conversation.
:smack:
I mean educated roman people, of course
I have two problems with this. The first might be a quibble with what you mean by not “very long”. Except for a 3 year period, the Romans had ruled Judea & Galilee since 63 BCE or, by the time Jesus was born, roughly the entire time the Soviet Union ruled the Ukraine and longer than it ruled the Baltic States. If the median age in that time and place was indeed 36 years, we can say it had been almost 2 full generations since these people had known any other ruler but the Romans. By the time of Jesus early adulthood it is safe to say there was no one left who remembered, even as the smallest child, Hasmonean Rule.
The second is just a caution. I think in mild over reaction to the Passion Movie having JC speaking RCCPriest Latin, otherwise sensible people have gone overboard with the Latin stuff. I would be very surprised if the statement And I very much doubt Jesus knew any Latin ** was accurate. Jesus spoke almost no Latin. Jesus could not converse in Latin. OK.
Greek being the everyday Lingua Franca, Latin was still the speech of Occupiers. Many of the Major Towns and places had Latin Names. The only outside of the New Testament, Tacitus and Josephus known occurrence of the name Pontius Pilate in his lifetime is in an ancient inscription in Judea - it is in Latin and it is from Jesus’ time Pic here. Many of Herod’s extant great works had dual Latin/Greek Inscriptions. Herod’s coinmoney was in Greek but included Roman Names (Augustus, Julia, Caesar). Caesarea Maritima was a major city, very Roman with Roman Temples and games and had a population of 20,000 Jews. It would be totally shocking to me if Jesus didn’t understand the basic commands of Roman soldiers “Out of way the you filthy Preacher.”“Halt” -type stuff. Except for Greeks (and the odd town granted citizenship en mass, the path to individual citizenship included learning to speak Latin. We know there were these people floating around Galillee and Judea.
Not saying there is evidence either way. But I suggest - Jesus might have known a smattering of Latin is probably closer to the probability mark than
*I very much doubt Jesus knew *any ** Latin is.
I understand your larger points and I agree with them.
Jesus likely would not have known a word of Latin. Aramaic was the language of Palestinian Jews and Greek was the lingua franca spoken even by the Romans.
Caesar is a word of Latin. Rome is word. Legion. Centurion. Antonia. Aqueduct. Palestine. Via. VArious Swords & Aramaments.
You know very well this is an extreme position taken in an extreme & unsupportable in manner.
I agree with your second scentence
He “most likely” knew what sicarii meant too. Of course he most likely did. *Most likely not a word * my aunt fanny. Too extreme.
I know what a samurai is. And bushido and katana and teriyaki and karaoke and hentai and anime and bukkake. That don’t mean I speak Japanese.
Sure it does, you simply have an eight word vocabulary.
You didn’t think of kamikaze, but you did think of bukkake.
:rolleyes: Oh Come on now sack up. Two of the smartest guys on the SDMB overstated, in understandable overreaction, and have painted themselves into a rhetorical corner – that it happens to be one on of the most ignorant & pendantic Dopers shouldn’t matter (i’ve done it myself 1000 times)
Given this, which of these would a fair and intellectually honest man say is more probably accurate
A. I very much doubt Brain Glutton knew any Japanese
B. Brain Glutton likely would not have known a word of Japanese
C. Brain Glutton spoke almost no Japanese. Brain Glutton could not converse in Japanese.
My position is C.
QUOTE=BrainGlutton] That don’t mean I speak Japanese.
[/QUOTE]
Look that is simply not fair arguing facts not in evidence. I NEVER SAID JESUS SPOKE LATIN. Never ever ever. I would be shocked if he did. We all agree there is no firm evidence either way - so we are dealing in probilities here. The idea that Jesus would probably say “What is this Caeseara Maritime or Palestina of which you speak?” or “Herod is in Tiberias?” turns to Apostles in Confusion is Just. Plain. Silly.
FWIW here are the Words borrowed into Mishnaic Hebrew from this time – few and far between. But they are there. As, more than likely, they were in Aramaic and Konine Greek borrowed words in Galillee and Judea.
The number of Latin words in Mishnaic Hebrew is comparatively small, in spite of the Roman conquest of Palestine (from the first century BCE onwards). Examples are ligyon (“legion”) and לבלר (lavlar - “scribe”, “clerk”), though we do not revert to a form closer to the Latin libellarius, namely ליבלר (livlar), found in manuscripts of the Mishna, preferring that which emerged in recent centuries in Europe in Mishnaic reading traditions.
Means That it happens to be one oF the most ignorant & pendantic Dopers who you are arguing with (meanining Jimmmy)shouldn’t matter
Sorry – stupid and could easily be read otherways :smack: