I was wondering if Jesus, supposedly a Jew, knew of the Hebrew Bible? If so, did he understand it, or did he have some Latin version? Or, perhaps he spoke Aramehic (sp?) ??? I wonder if theologians have given this some thought…
P.S. Me thinks me thinks too much!
Well it is a misconception that Joseph of Arimethia was poor. Several modern authors have found evidence that he was wealthy. So Jesus may have been well-educated, and not just a carpenter.
Lithium I am very interested in seeing this evidence, have a cite?
Aside: Say, what do those bumper-stickers mean “My boss is a Jewish Carpenter”? Does this mean my boss thinks he’s Jesus, or is it implying the Jews nailed Jesus to the cross? I’ve never understood these questionably politically correct (pc) bumpah-shtickerz! - Jinx
not at the moment.
Yes, he knew of the Hebrew Bible. Here’s an example (but I’m sure there must be a better one):
This is from Psalm 118:22:
There’s one example of a quotation apparently from the OT which doesn’t occur in it: John 7:38, “He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.”. (Some versions make it a bit clearer that “Out of his belly…” is a quotation.) Perhaps it’s an interpretation and not a direct quotation; either that, or something’s missing from the OT which Jesus considered canonical.
The best example of Jesus using the Hebrew Scriptures comes in the book of Luke when he visits a synagogue in his home town and is given a scroll of the prophet Isaiah to read from, and he used to “announce” the beginning of his mission - Luke 4:14-20
The Jewish canon is usually associated with the Council of Jamnia around AD 90, so although there was not an organised canon of Hebrew scripture in JC’s time there were certainly individual scrolls around…
Grim
They mean , “My boss is Jesus”. Since Jesus was Jewish, and a carpenter.
Well, that’s how I interpret them. I think you’re reading too much into it.
[jedi]
Joseph of Arimethia is not the Joseph you’re looking for…
[/jedi]
He was rich, was a member of the Sanhedrin, and owned the tomb in which Jesus was buried (which is how we know he was rich). He was also no relation to Jesus.
I suspect that Lithium did indeed mean Joseph the father of Jesus, in that there is the well-known theory that it would be more accurate to describe him as a ‘builder’ rather than just a ‘carpenter’.
That theory is neither particularly new nor is it based on any new evidence. Rather it is an argument over the precise connotations of the Greek word ‘tekton’.
Jesus certainly did know of the Hebrew Bible, as has been shown in this thread. He appears to have been a well-educated Jew, and I’d wager most Jews knew some Scripture, just like they do today.
I’m pretty sure he didn’t speak Latin, but Aramaic was his mother tongue, and I have the impression that he spoke Hebrew too.
The greater probability is that Jesus (along with most of his contemporaries) was familiar with Hebrew Scripture. As far back as the period of the return from the Babylonian exile, there was a strong tradition that encouraged all Jewish men to study the Law/Torah. The vagaries of time, money, and circumstance, of course, meant that it was more frequently the wealthy who pursued this path. However, following the death of Alexander Jannai, in 76 B.C.E., the Pharisee party was able to gain political power from the Sadducees for a while. During the presidency of the Sanhedrin of Simon ben Shetah, they passed a (series of) law(s) that provided for the establishment of schools and compulsory education throughout Judea. Outlying farmers probably did not get their kids educated as easily, but the boys in most communities were educated in Hebrew and the Law. When the Sadducees regained power, they did not overturn that (those?) law(s) nd the tradition of nearly universal education was begun that has continued right into the 20th century.
The Scriptural references in the New Testament are all (to my memory) taken from the Greek Septuagint, but that is most likely due to the fact that the New Testament was, itself, written in Greek and the Septuagint was the most likely copy of Scripture available to the Gentile audience.
On preview, I see that tomndebb and Priceguy have said most of what I was going to say (and a damn sight better too). One thing though. I quite surprised that no-one has jumped on this.
Jesus was not supposedly a Jew. He was a Jew. If there’s another theory about him, fair enough, but the burden of proof would be on the person advancing that theory.
I think according to the ummm… Afro-centrists (?), Jesus was black.
And…?
If you are trying to say Jesus couldn’t be both black and a Jew, you’re wrong. Jesus was a Middle Eastern Jew. The chances he had dark skin are very high. So what?
Whether someone is a Jew or not has nothing to do with skin color. There has been a Jewish community in Ethiopia for the last 2500 years or more, and all of its members are black as night.
UnuMondo
I think that that is usually said as a shock tactic - i.e. to all the Christians who happen to be racist and firmly of the belief that Jesus was fair skinned, blond (or mousey) haired and blue eyed.
I could be wrong though. Maybe there are people who truely believe that he was black skinned. Again, the burden of proof would rest with them as the majority of Jews, especially those that are in Israel and who have ancestors who have continually lived in the area, are not black.
As to black Jews in Africa, I saw a program that traced the origins of the Lemba tribe in SA back to Israel. A quick link (I’m sure there are better) is here
Indeed he was rich, and has been traditionally identified with the “rich man” whose grave Isaiah prophesized would be given to the Messiah (Isaiah 53:9). In Renaissance paintings, Joe of Arimathea is usually depicted wearing rich clothes with gold, etc., which help visually to differentiate him from Nicodemus.
Actually, there was once a tradition that Joseph of Arimathea was the uncle of Mary, and therefore Jesus’s great-uncle. He is also said to have owned tin mines in England, and to have once brought the young Jesus on a trip to his English properties (this is why Blake’s “Jerusalem” begins with the lines “And did those feet in ancient time/Walk on England’s mountains green?”–the reference is to Jesus’s feet).
Tradition also once held that Joe brought the cup from the Last Supper to England, this cup sometimes being identified with the Holy Grail.
These traditions are, needless to say, entirely spurious. Though they make for a good story.
Of course he knew of the hebrew bible. The guy was one smart dude.
If you are looking at it from a historical context (and not purely from a religious stand point) the guy used the ancient scriptures to his advantage. He and his followers made sure certain things happenned so as to fullfill prophesy and endear more people to his cause (perfect timing when entering jerusalem on palm sunday for example).
He was a shrewed man, a natural born leader, someone who knew how to manipulate the people’s beliefs so as to sway them to his cause. And he had a good message to boot.
Of course he knew of the hebrew bible. The guy was one smart dude.
If you are looking at it from a historical context (and not purely from a religious stand point) the guy used the ancient scriptures to his advantage. He and his followers made sure certain things happenned so as to fullfill prophesy and endear more people to his cause (perfect timing when entering jerusalem on palm sunday for example).
He was a shrewed man, a natural born leader, someone who knew how to manipulate the people’s beliefs so as to sway them to his cause. And he had a good message to boot. Ghady would be a similar historical figure… was ghandi an educated man as well? I think so.