Could Montana get the court to reconsider Citizens United?

This first came to my attention recently on the Rachel Maddow Show. Click the link for the video clip of Rachel interviewing Steve Bullock, the Montana Attorney General who is is doing his best to continue having Montana elections comply with the state’s own Corrupt Practices Act.

Maddow gives some history in her introduction, but here is something courtesy of the Montana Law Review:

Montana realized when the Copper Kings bought elections with such openness that even Mark Twain was moved to write about one such man, William A. Clark:

that something had to be done. So they enacted a law that worked very well in the state for the past century - until the Supreme Court’s Citizens Unived v. FCC ruling.

However, Montana - unlike the two dozen or so other states that had similar statutes on the books - decided that the federal ruling would not and should not control state elections.

This came to a head in the state when the “shady” American Tradition Partnership filed a lawsuit against the State of Montana alleging that the state’s campaign contribution limits are unconstitutional under the premise that money spent in elections is free speech.

However, the Montana high court ruled that Citizens United does not trump the Corrupt Practices Act:

Although the state court ruled that Montana was “unique,” it set into motion a flurry of activity from those outside of state. According to the Huffington Post:

This is significant because it shows that maybe it’s not so “unique” if nearly half the states in the union are on Montana’s side, but also that this movement is showing bipartisan support, a rare bird these days.

Some feel that the SCOTUS, since it has the same membership, will not do much, possibly they might refuse to rule, possibly they won’t rule favorably, and possibly they won’t even modify their ruling to accomodate Montana (and other states with similar arguments or circumstances).

However, when the Supreme Court granted a stay of a Montana state court ruling,

When you combine the amazing unpopularity of this Supreme Court ruling with the legal actions that started with Montana and is apparently ending right back in the country’s high court, how likely is it that the court will be willing or able to backtrack against a ruling that was made such a short time ago?

I am quite biased, although I am not alone in my bias, that Citizens United was a terrible ruling for democracy and the chilling effects of the ruling have already been felt. However, this seems like a solid foundation for a rare (but not unheard of) reversal from the High Court.

What do the legal beagles of the Dope think?

Not a snowball’s chance. I don’t concede their arguments ever held water, but even if they did, we would seriously expect SCOTUS to overturn a recent decision because Montana can point to corruption there over a century ago as making them unique?

Not a chance, IMO. CU was decided properly. The First Amendment’s “text offers no foothold for excluding any category of speaker.” Here it is:

There is no “except for corporations” clause there. Personal liberties, particularly those explicitly enumerated in the Constitution, don’t evaporate because people–even if it’s lots of people–don’t like them. There is no constitutional basis for overturning this. Ginsburg, as she often does, misses the point entirely. If this is ever overturned, it will be yet another example of at least 5 of the Justices detecting a right, lurking in the shadow of a penumbra, or in the Force, or with their Spider-sense. Because there is nothing in the Constitution that provides room for that decision. Hasn’t stopped them on many occasions before, but not a chance on this one. Not now.

Must agree reluctantly with Stratocaster’s forecast in the short term, unless a case came up enabling the Court to actually revisit the meaning of “legal personhood” for corporate entities. And in any case that still would not prevent a Koch or a Soros from just putting forth propaganda out of his own money, mind you.

Fascinating that the OP has so recently come to believe that 22 states joining an action against current law has such meaning.

How any states are now arrayed against the health care law again?

In any event, no, I do not believe there s anything novel about the claim nor does it appear at present that the Citizens United decision is in jeopardy.

But I am amused at the newfound interest in multi-state support for litigation.

George Will wrote a column on the topic, if anyone’s interested:

Well, I’m convinced. George Will is an idiot.

What he isn’t understanding, is that huge corporations aren’t going to lean to both sides based on the intelligent quality of their messages. They are going to side with the group that wants to slash their taxes and repeal regulations.

Of course, you’re okay with that, since it’s your side that gets to buy elections.

Well, I’m convinced you didn’t read the cite. (Emphasis added.)

But don’t let that interrupt a good rant. BTW, I don’t support civil liberties because they benefit “my side.” I agreed that the Nazis could not be prohibited from marching in Skokie, regardless of how awful I find their positions. Because such is the nature of our constitutional protections. But I’ll again quote that famous idiot, George Will, in response to “your side”:

I had no problem when the shoe was on the other foot. It was Soros’s money to spend as he saw fit.

I’m sure it will remain this way in perpetuity. Surely there will be hesitance, since this is the first post-Citizens United election to start. But they will come around. Also, I have a problem with individuals (who will profit when their industry gets preferential treatment) do it too.

Unlimited donations to political campaigns isn’t a civil liberty. It’s an attempt to elevate monied interests above the common man. Anyone who actually cared about civil liberties should be against it.

Soros is one. Most billionaires can be expected to donate to those that will make them more wealthy.

And what “meaning” did I ascribe it?

So, there’s an urgent need to correct a “problem” that doesn’t exist. Got it. That’s good enough for me.

I understand the desire to be cynical, however this decision was not some 9-0 slam dunk. The decision was a tenuous 5-4. It may not take much to have it reconsidered… especially when you have this:

Additionally, you have recently retired justices who are making their dissention public…

And…

Additionally, there is much speculation that the release of David Souter’s unpublished dissent could impact this case:

We are not talking about unaffiliated cheerleaders here, we are talking about current and former justices who feel that the court made a mistake and they don’t rely on sour grapes - they point to actual evidence that the “corruption” which was dismissed in the majority decision is actually happening now, not just a century ago in Montana.

Apparently the Dope legal beagles are more cynical about this than former and current justices? That’s fascinating…

Well that’s just silly. Is it your opinion that it shouldn’t be against the law to detonate a nuclear device in Manhattan?

I mean it hasn’t happened yet!

This is the level of conservative discourse. Advertising doesn’t work. Billionaires will evenly split between the parties. Magic will rule the day.

It’s better than that, dude… The pro-Citizens United side says there’s no evidence… but if there is evidence, the court should ignore it:

So, evidence doesn’t exist… And if it does, it doesn’t count. :rolleyes:

At this particular point, yes. Most billionaires know that the current Republican fiscal strategy will ruin the American economy. It’s just that many of them think they will come out ahead due to temporary favors to businesses and the rich*, while a lot of them realize that even most billionaires will not be come out ahead when our country plunges the world into a depression.

*Or own particular businesses that will be helped by the government, aka patronage.

No, I just foolishly thought you’d have some, you know, actual current reason for this urgency. Not some hobgoblin that you’re certain of, but absent any real current proof that some awful thing has (or will) occur. Constant reassertion of something does not make it so.

But the fact remains, there’s no way this gets reconsidered. SCOTUS decisions don’t get reversed in this time frame, whatever you think the merit. Just to get back to the OP.

BTW, are you getting tired of your schtick yet? The standard bearer for all things liberal, casting ad hominems, bad intentions and snark at anyone who disagrees with you? It’s kind of silly. I think I’m done with you.

Huh? You’re the one throwing out utter nonsense.

I understand why you wouldn’t want to engage with someone who points out when you post nonsense, so feel free to ignore-list me. I’ll still point it out when I notice it.

Whereas I’m not nearly as confident that the split will luckily align to 50/50.

Some billionaires are stupid. Look at the people who funded Santorum and Gingrich. Neither of their pocket-billionaires had a solid grasp on economics and politics. Yet the money dropped.

New York Times columnist Linda Greenhouse wrote the following in February:

So the court already reversed a free speech issue within the timeframe of only a few years when new evidence swayed the minds of several of the justices.

In the majority ruling, Anthony Kennedy wrote that “independent expenditures, including those made by corporations, do not give rise to corruption or the appearance of corruption.”

The bolding is mine and the crux of the matter, in my opinion (and in the opinion of those whose opinions matter a lot more than mine). Using that as a litmus, one doesn’t even need to even prove corruption existed to target the initial ruling, one only needs to show “the appearance of corruption” to take the wind out of those sails.

So let’s ask Bricker, who already feels that voter confidence in the system is paramount when it comes to Voter ID laws, if he feels that the post-Citizens United landscape has given “the appearance of corruption?”

I think it has. So do parties as disparate as John McCain and Barrack Obama, the former who filed an Amicus Brief with the court, the latter who famously questioned the wisdom of the decision in a State Of The Union Address.

For those who don’t agree that “the appearance of corruption” is enough (that can’t be Bricker though, can it?) there is evidence of actual corruption:

Even if someone feels that this is not real corruption - and somehow can dismiss the corruption that led Montana to putting their own law on the book a century ago (when a law designed to stop corruption does just that, can opponents really say with a straight face “see, no corruption in a hundred years” as evidence to overturn that law and others like it? Has the corrupting influence of money changed in 100 years?) - I can tell you that stories like this sure do give the “appearance of corruption.”

Or as Bricker might say “my confidence has eroded.”

In the future please keep this kind of personal commentary in The BBQ Pit. It doesn’t belong here.

It’s like I said in another thread: when some people see laws/rulings that allow the wealthy/corporations to buy elections, they think that proves that the problem is the government, and that therefore it needs to be nuked flat so said wealthy/corporations can do whatever they want to whoever they want without worrying about checks or anyone with any power looking over their shoulder.

I don’t understand it, but I’ve seen it. Not here, IIRC, but it’s out there.