I am in Fort Carson, Colorado, visiting my new son-in-law (4th Brigade, 4th Infantry Division, yada yada yada) prior to his deployment. While here, we visited the PX. In the PX is a shop that sells “tactical gear”. It included stuff to put under body armor, bandoleer straps, gloves ($81 for a pair of gloves!!), accessories for various weapons, etc. Basically, it seemed like an expensive army surplus store.
So, I asked my son-in-law why soldiers would have to buy stuff if the army issues them the equipment they need. He said that the army does issue equipment, but that the stuff in the shop is better.
That doesn’t make sense to me. If better is available, why doesn’t the army issue it to the soldiers? Are manufacturers of this stuff simply ripping off naive young men? Is their stuff superior to army-issued equipment? If the army doesn’t issue it, how can a soldier add it to his uniform? It seems to me that accessorizing a uniform would necessarily make it not uniform. As a taxpayer, I am concerned that my army is not providing the soldiers with the best equipment money can buy. As a concerned father-in-law, I wanted to buy everything in the store for the kid, but I can’t afford $81 gloves and a $41 LED flashlight. The prices were outrageous. I don’t want to have the kid get shot to pieces just because the army didn’t feel like giving eighty dollar gloves!
I am not looking for political answers (“Obama cut the military budget and our guys can’t get good gear!”). What is the real straight dope on this military stuff?
My hub was an Army Reservist for 35 years. Much of his equipment was replaced throughout the years with non-issue stuff just because it is indeed “better”. Was it necessary for him to complete his mission? No. Was it cool? Yes.
The military doesn’t buy “the best equipment money can buy” and the $81.00 gloves are a great example. You could spend a bajillion dollars on unnecessary goodies that most taxpayers, including myself, would object to.
When it comes to life saving and life protecting equipment, absolutely our soldiers deserve the best technology available. Gloves? Not so much.
There are several factors in play there. Here are some of them, off the top of my head:
1- The military will issue them the gear that will do the job. There may be better stuff, there may be “cooler” stuff, but the stuff that is issued is adequate to the task at hand (usually).
2- Flashlight- $15. LED tactical flashlight- $41. With a budget that, despite the moans of some, that is limited, they can get 2 + flashlights for the price of one, that also fits 1 above.
3- A lot of that stuff is cool, and useful. It’s also not actually necessary. For example, my brother was a logistics guy (read: truck driver) for most of his first 2 tours. No need for $81 nomex gloves. Not really. But he had some. Because they were cool.
4- Buying stuff that is cool, is cool. The military is largely young men and women, and the young are willing to pay for cool things, like the aforementioned Oakley glasses.
I’ll come up with more later. Bed time for my kiddo shortly.
Just an example of cheaper is not better.
In cold weather maybe the $81 gloves keep the soldier’s hands warm enough to operate his weapon while the cheaper gloves leave his hands too cold for good dexterity and possibly too thick to fit inside the trigger guard.
That’s what I cam to say, exactly. Try pulling guard duty in the field at Ft Drum in January, from midnight to 3 am, and the temp is -10 with a wind chill much lower. And you have to sit there in your improvised fighting position essentially motionless, guarding your section of the perimeter. For 3 hours. Did I mention it was cold? And the only thing keeping you warm is standard issue cold weather gear made by the lowest bidding contractor. I’m sure you can imagine it.
You will swear that the first thing you’ll do when you get back to garrison is buy those doggone gloves. No matter what they cost. (After shower and beer and pizza and girlfriend)
True story.
BTW, the gloves work amazingly well. I can’t vouch for any of the other “cool” gear.
In general, the standard issue items worked well. Sure it was cool to wear Nomex gloves when out on patrol in the summer. The Oakley glasses also looked cool, but the Army will find something that works and issue it out. OTOH, some Soldiers would rather pay for something that they perceive is better. As an example, in my last unit several years ago, canteens were part of the duty uniform for outdoor details from Spring to Fall. Many young Soldiers refused to carry canteens because they thought the water in them tasted bad. So they bought camel-backs. When my unit started to issue camel-backs, these same Soldiers started to bring in bottled water and refused to use the camel-backs.
I deployed last year. I’m in the National Guard and I’m not used to getting new equipment or cool shit from the Army. I got a lot of cool shit from the Army. Most of it I didn’t have to use. I have three pairs of issued Oakley sunglasses that haven’t come out of the box yet. The gloves are fine, both winter and summer pairs. And if they wear out they give you new ones. About the only thing I would say is worth it is a good flashlight. The Army ones suck.
It’s funny you mention flashlights. That was something I thought was outrageous. What could possibly make a flashlight worth $41??? It can’t just be supply and demand. The AAFES store on post had the $41 flashlights, but the post is in a medium-sized city with plenty of stores that sell quality goods. Competition should drive the price down.
But they aren’t BADASS flashlights (ie, the ones your friends all bought at the PX).
One of the fads I remember from G.I. friends was boot laces – they would switch out the standard ones for thick cushy sneaker-style ones that didn’t pass inspection, so guys would have “field boots” and “base boots”. That one lasted a few months, until the guys got tired of retying their boots all the time. Never found out how it started.
The ones in the PX might be more durable or have different mounts that work on military gear. They also probably have multiple colored lenses. In a tactical environment white light is a bad thing.
I don’t know if the Army is issuing LED flashlights, but if they’re not then the comparison is pretty easy to make. LED flashlights are brighter, batteries last longer, they are lighter, and usually smaller as well. LED flashlights seriously kick ass and I got rid of my Mag-lights long ago in favor of these puppies. Oh if only they were available back when I was in Boy Scouts
If they did, then someone would just make even better stuff and sell THAT. Issue $81 gloves and someone will sell $120 gloves.
I was in the Canadian Forces and we did this all the time, supplanting issue stuff with better or cooler stuff, withou the boundaries of what was allowed (which was pretty loose when you were in the field.) I bought different glove liners, higher quality combat boots, a bunch of crap.
Armies are insanely expensive and inherently wasteful, and the government has to make some tradeoffs between cost and quality. There’s no way around that fact unless you want to bankrupt the government.
The government has to procure something and stock it in all the sizes in depots around the world and stick with it for some years regardless of whether something that claims to be better comes along in the meantime. Also there will never be total agreement on whether the New Thing is better or not.
Flashlights - yeah, we had the $15 ones, that break when you drop it, or fill up with water when you cross the river. Kinda like the radios that stop working when it rains because water gets into the handset.
I wonder if the military is still issuing those cheap cotton socks which cause a lot of misery when they get wet. The good kind are a special weave of spandex and polypropylene that does a wonderful job of wicking moisture away from skin and dry out amazingly fast. They cost six times as much but are worth every cent.
I have been in for 20 years and I can say without hesitation that there has been a vast improvement in personal gear in the US Army within the last few years. Not just big ticket items like MRAPs.
Well, dudes here are talking about the Nomex gloves. Personally, the issued wool liners with the leather shell would keep my fingers warmer than Nomex.
