I think the middle class’s top three economic interests are availability of jobs, rising incomes, and affordable health care. Low taxes are certainly preferred, but must be much further down the list.
I have to say, I can only think that is is a fixed, unmovable, completely out of touch ideology that would make one think that low taxes are the top economic interest of the middle class.
I think Ravenman nailed it on the white working class’s economic interests. They don’t care that much about taxes. Higher paying jobs, a lot more of them, and affordable health care are at the top of their agendas. But I also don’t think they are all that focused on economic issues. Which is why they will be hard to peel away from the Republicans. The middle to upper middle class folks will be an easier touch, as the depredations of the wealthy continue to force the upper middle class down toward becoming part of a single peasant class. Of course, no one will PUBLICLY call them peasants … but they will be.
Well you are right. In that case, you have my answer. Can’t be done. Wasted energy. They will be the last of the middle class Republicans to see that they have been led by the nose to their own economic slaughter … if they ever do.
To add some data to our opinions, here is a recent poll in which Americans were asked to name the most pressing problem before the country.
19% said jobs, 17% said the economy in general, 8% said budget deficits; another 18% said general dissatisfaction with government, 11% said health care, and 5% said education. Only 1% said taxes, the same amount of people who complained the rent is too damned high.
In another poll, 23% named unemployment as the top problem, 20% said the economy in general, and 19% said government dysfunction. Taxes don’t appear anywhere on that list.
I think the evidence is overwhelming that economics is and always will be the top voting issue for just about every broad sector of the population. But tax rates? Ha, that’s way down the list.
The top interest that the government can affect.
They don’t care about taxes as long as they don’t pay much and both parties agree that they will never be raised, only cut even further.
It wasn’t long ago that the middle class was rebelling against taxes, and the result of that rebellion was the end of middle class tax increases.
Why don’t you stop pulling these opinions out of, uh, thin air and provide some cites? I remind you that you don’t have the best track record of being in touch with Americans’ political views.
Reality speaks for itself. Both parties are opposed to middle class tax increases. Do you disagree with this? The parties are more amenable to cutting SS and Medicare than they are to raising middle class taxes.
Now perhaps you think they are misreading American public opinion as well, but all I’m citing here is conventional wisdom.
How much finer a point do I need to put on it? I’m questioning whether you are up to the task of speaking on behalf of reality or conventional wisdom.
ETA: I’m specifically challenging your assertions that tax cuts are the middle class’s major economic interest, and that the middle class rebelled against taxes, and that there was a (presumably recent) end to middle class tax increases.
Let’s figure out what you’re disagreeing with here. Do you think that the Democrats are just being too skittish, that they could raise middle class taxes?
That does not mean the middle class cares.
Yeah, they could be wrong, I’m just not sure how I can do a cite on the issue when it’s about a hypothetical. We wouldn’t know how much the middle class cared unless the Democrats voted to undo the rest of the Bush tax cuts.
Or, raised the payroll tax for all workers to pay for the higher SS benefits some of the progressive Dems want.
Again: I’m specifically challenging your assertions that tax cuts are the middle class’s major economic interest, and that the middle class rebelled against taxes, and that there was a (presumably recent) end to middle class tax increases.
Don’t try to make this about me constructing an argument against things you’ve asserted, to which you’ll probably reply with more unfounded assertions. Why can’t you just back up what you’ve said already?
Oh, that’s easy. The tax revolt of the 1970s is well documented, and it changed politics in a huge way. Prop 13 is the most famous outcome of that tax revolt, and is still as sacred as Social Security today.
As for middle class tax increases, the last broad-based middle class tax increase was 1982, and middle class taxes have been going down ever since, with nearly every election season featuring a new tax cut targeted at the middle class, one of them being the recent changes to make the capital gains and dividend taxes 0% on those in the 10 and 15% income brackets.
And so middle class tax increases have been impossible since 1982?
They haven’t happened and both parties oppose them. I interpret that to mean “politically impossible”, especially since SS and Medicare have been cut in the interim, and those are supposedly third rails.
I can’t prove that you’re wrong about middle tax increases being possible until the Democrats try to do it. It should be noted that even the plan to increase SS is paid for on the backs of the rich. Which begs the question of how they plan to save SS when the trust fund runs out.
So the talking points from conservatives that Bush I raised payroll taxes which hit the middle class is what – stretching the truth? An outright lie? A big misunderstanding?
Huh. So he did:
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=45
Didn’t know that was part of the 1990 deal. Although I’m not sure how significant 0.28% is.
It’s an exception that proves the rule though. Look at my chart. The payroll tax increased steeply over the years without consequence and then in 1990, dead stop. The payroll tax has never gone this long without an increase.
SORRY, CAN YOU TYPE A LITTLE LOUDER? IT’S HARD TO HEAR YOU OVER THAT BEEPING NOlSE OF YOUR ARGUMENT BACKING UP SO QUICKLY.
All you did was show me that I was wrong about the last broad based increase being 1990 instead of 1982.
My other argument, that tax increases on the middle class are politically impossible, is backed up by the fact that despite the SS tax not going up in 24 years, an unprecedented streak, even the Liz Warrens of the world aren’t advocating a rate increase.
Correcting a point of fact does not win you an argument by itself.