Could the President/Government use a private space agency to go to the Moon/Mars?

Let’s say, hypothetically, that the next president of the US in 2020 decides s/he wants to send US astronauts to the Moon to do some more advanced exploration. NASA seems to require quite a long lead time to spin up such a mission, but this new president wants to do it in his or her first term. Congress is on board with this, IF it can be done relatively cheaply…they will only authorize, say, $20 billion for the mission (or whatever it will realistically take). SpaceX chimes in and says they are willing and able to do the mission for those terms (i.e. that amount of money for a fixed fee and on that timetable). They have already sent tourists around the Moon, have worked with several other space companies like Bigelow Aerospace and even done a proof of concept unmanned landing in preparation…they are ready to go.

Could the President with Congressional approval and support just pull the trigger on this project, maybe direct NASA to assist and approve the design and astronauts to go? I THINK the answer is yes (leaving aside all of the contracting nightmare and the fantasy of Congressional approval and all that), at least based on my own experience with government contracts, but was curious. To me, this seems like a viable model for a president to come in and actually get a mission they want done in space going. Lately, a president will come in and say they want to do something (GW Bush was a manned base on the Moon, Obama was an asteroid capture and manned expedition to explore it near the Moon, Trump…well, something vague about a Moon landing and Mars mission), but as soon as there is another administration it gets scrapped, basically. NASA is always getting jerked around on this stuff and unable to really focus, which means our manned program never seems to get on track or improves only slowly. I was watching a video about a shift in NASA to a capabilities-based organization, at least WRT manned missions, and then thought, well, why not use private companies who can demonstrate the capabilities needed for a vertical mission? Thus the GQ question.

Sure, they just issue a RFP and let the companies bid on it. Easy in theory.

NASA’s commercial crew program is quite similar to the OP’s proposal. Nothing is stopping Congress from offering some company a very large sum of money as cash on the barrel for some moon missions. Well, nothing except common sense, that is.

The distinction between “NASA” and “private companies” also isn’t as sharp as it’s often made out to be. NASA does very little by itself: Mostly, it exists as a forum for collaboration between private companies, universities, and the military. When we went to the Moon before, NASA didn’t make the rockets; companies like Boeing and Lockheed did. And most of the rockets weren’t initially designed for civilian use; they were designed for ICBMs.

As others have said, there’s no legal reason why Congress can’t pass a law authorizing a contract to a private company for a space mission.

But there is the practical issue that just because a private company claims it can carry out a space mission for a fraction of the cost of NASA doesn’t mean they can actually deliver. There’s a long history of private companies make unrealistic promises to the government and then, after the project has begun, raising its prices.

On the other hand, in the last two decades private industry has shown the capability to deliver a lot more than NASA has - especially when it comes to lifting mass into space. NASA has been struggling to build a new rocket system for 20 years, and all they have to show for it right now is a bloated system that is far too expensive, will only be able to fly once every year or two, and which doesn’t even have a mission.

In the meantime, companies like Blue Origin and SpaceX are revolutionizing the way space launch is done, and therefore revolutionizing the whole industry.

If you gave $25 billion to NASA, and $25 billion to private industry, say in the form of a prize fund, and told each of them to go for the moon, my money would be on private industry. They’d probably do it for a tenth the cost of NASA’s plan, and in a third of the time,

If you gave $25 billion to NASA and $25 billion to private industry, the effect would be that the private industry would paint NASA on the side of their rockets and do it for $50 billion.

One other thing along this line: unless the private company was extremely confident that it would deliver the mission on-time and within requirements, and with a high degree of confidence that the $25 billion would be sufficient for its costs, it would almost be criminally stupid for the company to take a fixed-price contract for such a technologically challenging mission.

Fixed-price contracts are intended to guarantee the delivery of services or a contract within certain parameters. If a company started building the rocket and then some technical problem arose such that the company would not be able to perform on schedule and to requirements, the Government would be able to terminate the contract for default. This means not only that future payments would be cancelled, but also in certain circumstances, the Government may be able to recover funding that was already on contract due. In other words, it is very possible that a technical problem could leave the company on the hook for owing billions to the government for work that it already did, but was sub-standard. This is pretty much what happened with the legendary A-12 Navy stealth fighter contract, which was cancelled in 1991 and took 23 years to resolve. It ended with the contractor providing compensation in-kind to the Government to the tune of many hundreds of millions of dollars.

That’s because NASA & the government made conscious decisions to get out of the LEO launch business & unmanned satellite business, and switch to commercial launchers. NASA hasn’t even tried to develop new satellite launchers after the Shuttle proved to be useless for that task. And after the Constellation program was cancelled in 2011, NASA stopped work on developing crew launch vehicles & resupply vehicles for low earth orbit, and instead invested in Commercial Crew Development and Commercial Resupply Services. NASA continued work on a heavy lift vehicle for deep-space (i.e. beyond low earth orbit) human exploration because no commercial launch companies seemed ready to tackle it at that time. Of course SpaceX is catching up fast, so it’s arguable whether that was the right decision, but Falcon Heavy is still not as powerful as the SLS.

Congressional approval will be the tricky bit. There will be opposition from every Congressman and Senator who represent States/districts where NASA centers and contractors are located.

Except that things don’t usually work like that in the real world. I agree that laws can be enacted and sometimes even enforced but what usually happens is the project gets started and then runs low on money. The government can then threaten the company, but what are the real options?

Tell the company to complete the project on the original budget? The company will say “We can’t. We’re out of money. If you push us we’ll just declare bankruptcy and go out of business and you’ll get nothing.”

Tell the company to return the money? “We said we’re out of money. The money you gave us has all been spent. If you try to get it back we’ll just go with that bankruptcy plan.”

Walk away? Sure, the government can do that. But if it does, it spent twenty-five billion dollars and got nothing for it. And the more money that’s been invested already increases the reluctance to walk away.

Double down. What often happens is the government gives the company more money so it can continue on the project that has already been started. And if the company still can’t finish the project, this cycle just starts all over again.

And that’s not even getting into the whole “this company employs three thousand people in my district” and “they donated a million dollars to my last campaign” issues.

This is why private companies can confidently submit twenty-five billion dollar bids for projects it secretly knows will cost fifty billion dollars.

[QUOTE=Little Nemo]
Tell the company to complete the project on the original budget? The company will say “We can’t. We’re out of money. If you push us we’ll just declare bankruptcy and go out of business and you’ll get nothing.”
[/QUOTE]

They can’t do that if it’s a fixed fee contract (granted, as Ravenman pointed out they probably wouldn’t do such a contract unless they were sure that $20 billion was way over what they needed to do the job, but that’s what I specified in the OP).
I appreciate the answers…that’s what I thought as well. I think it’s a more viable concept than some in this thread seem to think, as I think SpaceX and a few others are (or will be) at the point where they could do such a contract in a reasonably timely manner (i.e. during a single term of a president), and might be something for a president to someday contemplate, assuming any of them actually want to do more than talk about a manned mission to something other than low earth orbit.

Separate what Blue Origin and SpaceX have promised they’re going to do from what they’ve actually done. If you do, you’ll find their record is a lot less impressive.

Blue Origin has launched rockets. But they haven’t put a satellite into orbit yet, much less put a man up in space. In other words, they haven’t achieved the equivalent of Sputnik I.

SpaceX is farther along. They’ve managed to deliver payloads into orbit. Which is something NASA was doing sixty years ago.

And NASA is still in operation. They’re launching more rockets than private companies and they’re doing it to more distant targets. Thinking that private industry is on the verge of catching up with NASA, much less surpassing them, is just wishful thinking.

SpaceX is around where NASA was for Apollo 8 (or maybe just before Apollo 7 I guess) wrt manned flight, assuming they meet their current schedule to fly some tourists to the moon and back later this year or early next. And they did it on far less than what NASA used to get there. Of course, they could use lessons learned to get there, but I think you are under-rating them at least as much or more than Sam is building them up. As for manned space flight, which is what we are talking about here, I’d say that SpaceX and the others aren’t that far behind where NASA is today, and they probably could put someone on the Moon and bring them home by 2024 for the right price. Musk’s goal with SpaceX is a manned Mars mission by the 2030’s, and I don’t think it’s all that far-fetched depending on how the proof of concept tests go this year or next.

What is the NASA rocket then? As far as I know they normally use ULA’s Atlas rocket for their payloads.

SpaceX is also heavily subsidized by NASA. It’s not some nimble little Silicon Valley rocket app company with $10 million in VC money. They also use NASA infrastructure.

NASA is no doubt hobbled by bureaucracy, but so is every big company. And the profit motive leads to corners cut. Morton Thiokol knew the O-rings were a problem. What happens when the trillion-dollar Mars ship blows up because some $300 part didn’t have a redundancy built in?

To be clear, the only medium class launch vehicle the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) has operated for us in its satellite and spacecraft launches is the Long Tank Thor/Delta family of vehicles which were derived from the Thor IRBM. All other medium and large class satellite launches were contracted to the United States Air Force on the Titan, Atlas, Thor-Agena/Delta, and Minotaur vehicles or have been performed using commercial launch services such as Orbital Sciences Corporation Pegasus and Taurus vehicles, SpaceX Falcon 9, or in joint venture on various Russian and European launchers. NASA did operate the crewed version of Atlas-Mercury and Titan-Gemini rockets as well as develop the Apollo and Space Transportation System (‘Space Shuttle’) launch systems, and does built and launch sounding rockets for atmospheric research. However, as Chronos notes, the hardware of all of those systems were actually built by aerospace contractors such as Rockwell, Convair, Glenn L. Martin, Rocketdyne, Pratt & Whitney, Grumman, Hughes, IBM, McDonnell-Douglas, et cetera. (I’d list them all but even the prime contractors would be an enormous list of companies which have sense absorbed into one another.)

Most of the people actually turning wrenches and putting together hardware at NASA are, in fact, contractors from private companies; from the mid-Nineties onward, the United Space Alliance, a joint venture of Boeing and Lockheed Martin (which is separate from the United Launch Alliance that manages the EELV program) did essentially all of the maintenance, upgrades, and pre-launch integration and servicing of the Shuttle system. Even the systems engineering and software, which were traditionally areas where NASA did a lot of the actual work, have transferred over to contractor responsibilities. I’ll note that having a private contractor did not drive down the costs of Shuttle launches, which continued to increase through the life of the program due to various factors including aging of the Orbiter vehicles, parts obsolescence, reduction in the frequency of missions, et cetera.

The question of the o.p. is actually two separate questions; one is whether a private company could provide crewed spaceflight services, and the other is whether NASA could be directed to use those services to transport members of its astronaut corps to a mission. The first is yes; since the passage of the Commercial Space Launch Act of 1984, codified as 51 USC 509 private operators, licensed by the FAA for launch operations, have been able to provide commercial spaceflight services to both other commercial entities and to NASA and government agencies such as the Air Force. This law was enacted specifically to allow NASA to use commercial providers for various services. In 2015 the Spurring Private Aerospace Competitiveness and Entrepreneurship (SPACE) Act of 2015 was passed which, among other things, encourages the development of commercial space flight systems, encourages government agencies to use commercial services, and extends indemnification for “extraordinary hazards” to operators.

NASA is, of course, using the ongoing Commercial Resupply Services (CRS) contracts to purchase resupply services to the International Space Station. It has also supported the Commercial Orbital Transportation Program (COTS) from 2006 to 2013 to develop both resupply and crew transportation, downselecting to SpaceX (Cap C–pressurized cargo and return) and OSC (Cap B–pressurized cargo and disposal) for crew resupply. The Capability D component was not exercised, but NASA has supported the Commercial Crew Development (CCDev) program for crewed delivery, downselecting to Boeing, Sierra Nevada Corporation, and SpaceX under Commercial Crew Integrated Capability (CCiCap). As of 2015, Boeing completed all contract milestones, Sierra Nevada completed 10 of 13 contract milestones, and SpaceX completed 13 of 18 contract milestones for their respective systems. NASA awarded Boeing and SpaceX with contracts to provide crew transportation services to the ISS pending certification of the crew vehicle, and in the case of SpaceX, the Falcon Heavy launch vehicle. (Boeing will use a crew-rated version of the Atlas V launcher.)

So, private companies can and in fact are trying to develop the capability to provide crewed launch services, both for NASA (the only US government agency with an operating crewed space program) and to other parties (foreign governments, private companies, and individual space enthusiasts). In fact, other than the FAA licensing process and International Traffic in Arms Regulations restrictions, there is very little the US government could do to prevent a commercial entity from offering crewed launch capability (although the FAA restriction is absolute; it could prevent a US-registered company from operating anywhere, even outside of US soil).

Could NASA be directed to use commercial services? In theory, NASA is an independent agency reporting to the executive branch. The President of the United States appoints the NASA Director who has plenary authority over the agenda of the agency and the programs that it undertakes. Congress, however, approves the NASA budget as part of discretionary spending and could add or remove line items for specific programs. (It can technically delve into finer detail but rarely does.) Members of Congress cannot compel the NASA director to do anything other than by budget allocations. As a practical matter, NASA does what appeases powerful members of Congress, such as selecting contractors in key Congressional districts, so that it doesn’t run political roadblocks with budgetary allocations, so realistically the President may set the overall agenda but Congress funds specific programs and other areas of discretionary spending.

However, NASA has a very proprietary interest in seeing to the safety of its astronaut corps and reliability of the vehicles it depends on for mission success. The standards for a crew rated vehicle are much higher than an uncrewed launcher, and I suspect they would be highly resistant to being directed to use an uncertified system or one with significant unresolved risks, especially after the experience of Challenger and Columbia. A lot of the cost and effort of crewed launch vehicles is in meeting a higher standard of development testing and integration verification testing. A private space program run by a commercial entity may not have such concerns and be willing to adopt a far more liberal risk posture. I have a hard time seeing NASA accepting the use of the Falcon Heavy as currently designed, and in particular the cryogenic propellant densification, for crewed launches. Obtaining certification and being approved to execute a NASA contract would mean satisfying this standard.

This begs a separate question, however, of what a crewed space program is supposed to accomplish. Although NASA was originally chartered with advancing crewed spaceflight and, very early in its existence, landing a person on the Lunar surface for the purposes of national prestige, its overarching mission is the advancement of space and aviation technology, and development of scientific understanding of the Earth, Sun, planetary science, and the wider universe beyond our solar system. These are not objectives that a commercial entity would engage in for profit but they are nonetheless very important for advancing human knowledge and protecting ourselves from space hazards such as solar storms and potentially hazardous impactors. A partnership between NASA and commercial providers could free NASA to focus more upon the science and exploration aspects as well as technology development instead of the mundanities of operating launch vehicles. But expecting commercial entities to take over the mission objectives of science and exploration at some expectation of return on investment is really not practical in the foreseeable future, and will not be until there is a sufficient space infrastructure that exploration can be done inexpensively and as an aside to commercial operations such as resource extraction and fabrication.

There is another implicit point that needs to be addressed: the notion that a commercial entity will necessarily be cheaper because “of course it will, it’s private enterprise”, especially if it is a firm fixed price (FFC) contract. Setting aside that nearly all of the hardware that flies to and in space is built by commercial entities–often on FFP procurements–it should be understood that costs grow dramatically beyond estimates for two fundamental but practical reasons; one is failing to understand the complexities of the system or state of technology and having to spend additional money to develop new capability; the other is the dreaded “requirements creep”, where program requirements keep being modified throughout the program requiring redesign or retesting. (The F-35 program is an example of the latter, as the design went from an inexpensive fair weather interceptor to a do-all, be-all replacement for the much more sophisticated F-22.)

Either way, the fundamental problem lies in evaluating proposals for adequate technical basis and managing the resulting contract. FFP is thought by some to be a panacea for poor contract management because regardless, the contractor is on the hook to complete the work even if it ends up eating into their profit margin. The reality is that nobody every loses money on an FFP contract, because they’ll get up to the final milestones, admit that they need more funding, and hold the agency hostage to getting an end product until they get it. The Bradley Fighting Vehicle, the Terminal High Altitude Area Defense system, and the F-35 are all examples where the program went way over budget and the government kept pouring in money to get a finished product. The result is that the proposal evaluation process often looks more at the cost volume than technical volumes and the cheapest contractor who meets the basic acceptance criteria wins, even though they do not demonstrate an adequate technical basis to do the work. This is a game contractors play with RFPs. If a hypothetical provider claimed they could put build a lunar base for US$10B, and managed to get to critical design review and do a proof of concept before running out of funds, the government would very likely just extend the contract, especially if it meant that more money went to critical Congressional districts. This is true whether NASA is the procuring agency or whether another separate contract administrator is involved.

For those venerating so-called “New Space” companies and their ability to perform these kinds of tasks much more cheaply through the exposition of buzzwords like “commoditization”, “flat management structure”, and “capabilities-based architecture”, I’ll point out that even the most successful entrant into commercial spaceflight to date, SpaceX, has essentially doubled their costs from original estimates, has missed every stated capability milestone on their schedule, and has experienced several failures and near misses due to incomplete development testing or evaluation of the design. This is not to fault SpaceX for the technical capability, and they’ve demonstrated some significant accomplishments but I would not uncritically accept any claims about what can be done for cost and schedule without substantial technical evidence and proof-of-concent demonstration.

Stranger

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The very essence of federal contracting. :smiley:

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Pegasus has been used to launch many small science satellites (Small Explorer missions). I understand it’s being phased out and I haven’t really followed what is replacing it. Minotaur-C is one alternative, I think.

For larger satellites and probes NASA uses ULA’s Delta-II, Delta-IV and Atlas-V rockets.

Most NASA science missions are international collaborations, and sometimes the launch vehicle is a contribution by another country. The James Webb Space Telescope is a good example (it will be launched on an Ariane 5). Sometimes NASA just builds one instrument on another country’s satellite; sometimes it’s the other way around.

Resupply flights to the International Space Station are done through the Commercial Resupply Services contract, as Stranger explained above. Currently all crew flights to the ISS are done by Russia.

The cost increases you’re talking about are far more associated with cost reimbursable contracts, which require only that the contractor make best effort towards doing a particular thing, and are not a promise to deliver that particular thing within whatever cost and schedule parameters. So if a company is asked to build a bleeding-edge widget that has never been built before, the Government and the contractor almost invariably agree on a cost reimbursable contract. So if the technology gets difficult to deliver, as long as the contractor is making best efforts to do the job is was contacted to do, the expectation is that cost overruns are generally eaten by the Government, since the contractor is not in default of the contract.

Fixed price contracts are a different beast. There are few examples of fixed price development contracts for major complex systems, for reasons I will explain in a moment, but two examples include the A-12 debacle and the C-17 experience – which started out ugly but turned out to be a great success. More recently, the KC-46 tanker seems to be following the C-17 pattern.

If a contractor doesn’t deliver what they promised under a fixed price contract, they are in default. The penalties are potentially severe: either the company has to write off losses of potentially large amounts of money (Boeing has taken it in the shorts to the tune of several hundred million dollars on the KC-46 program so far) or actually have the Government go and recover funds that were essentially spent (like on the A-12).

Because under a fixed price contract, the exposure of a contractor is potentially so much greater, contrary to what you posted, a contractor generally bids one of two ways. First, what they reasonably estimate their costs and desired profit are for a project which they believe they understand the scope of, and are generally confident they can deliver and still make money. Or, second, for a project of great complexity, bid a sky-high cost to cover all the risk of exposure to the company in case things go wrong.

Your errant assumption that companies bid low on Federal fixed price R&D contracts is contrary to facts “in the real world,” as you put it; though if you said that industry bids low on cost reimbursement contracts because the risk is essentially on the Government, I would have no quibble. I’m guessing you are not making a distinction between the two, nor between industry’s approaches to making profits under either contract type.