When I think of my child (the lovely BloodyL) I can’t imagine disowning or abandoning her no matter what she does. I couldn’t stop loving her any more than I could stop my own heart from beating.
There may be some variation in the interpretation of what “disowning” means here. Strictly speaking, it should mean disavowing all relationship–“you are no longer my child”–but some people may think of it in terms of severing an actively supporting relationship, which is not the same thing as no longer loving the person.
There have been some Dopers who have mentioned, in various other contexts, that they have effectively severed their active relationships with loved ones without losing all love for the person. I’ve heard a few accounts elsewhere of people who actually turned over their own dearly beloved children to police to face justice for terrible crimes. This was a hard, hard thing to do, but necessary–in both respects, because of the love.
I totally agree with this. The OP’s example, though, was that he thought it was bizarre for Casey Anthony’s mother to mouth “I love you” to her. To me, it would be bizarre not to.
I’m not a parent, but this is pretty much what I imagine my answer would be. I would want and expect my kid to suffer the consequences of his or her actions, and would not enable such behavior in any way, but real parenting, to me, isn’t about the parent and their moral values, it’s about the kid and what is best for the kid. It’s always about what’s best for the kid. And I think in that scenario, in which the kid would no doubt be universally reviled for his or her behavior, being a source of love and support is what’s best for the kid.
This is kind of confusing to me. I’ve always figured that what you gain from parenting is the fulfillment of giving your love completely to another person without expecting anything in return. Beyond that I don’t think what the parent gains has any relevance at all. But maybe I’m wrong, and maybe it’s different with adult children.
I mean that I don’t think there would be anything to gain by either person. Well, the sociopath might *like *it, but it wouldn’t be healthy for them, just giving them another person who cares about them to manipulate.
For the parent, whatever “relationship” you think you’re having with them is just you being manipulated. Loving someone who has no conscience and just wants to use you is not fulfilling and can be very damaging. I’m not saying I’d be able to stop loving my hypothetical evil child, but I don’t think that love would be doing either of us any good.
Disown socially or financially?
If my son isn’t hurting me and I can still be his parent, then I can’t imagine it. But…if he murdered my spouse or grandchild, I think it’s safe to say, “I wish you the best. Later.”
I hope I would be one of those parents who supports their child by walking with them into the police station while they turn themselves in. There have been several cases like this in the news (drink driving causing death lately, but serial murder a few years back) I admired the parents who could stand by their kids while expecting them to face the consequences of their actions.
Love of my kid doesn’t mean unquestioning acceptance of her behaviour.
She just read over my shoulder about the police station thing and said “Cool!” I’m not sure whether I should be proud or worried.
Agreed.
I’m pretty certain - as certain as you can be about something that hasn’t happened to you - that I wouldn’t disown my daughter no matter what she did. I’d still want to visit her in prison, help her get better, make recompense in some way, something like that.
Nothing either of us could do would stop me being her mother and her being my daughter; I’m not her parent ‘for now,’ as another poster said, and I find that a rather heartless thing to say.
If my son were on trial for something, I’d probably pay for his defense. Everyone deserves a defense. If he murdered my grandchild, I’d assume he was mentally ill and needed help.
Wow, that is a really devestating thought. My child committing a crime so heinous that I choose to disown them. I could do it but I don’t know if I would do it. Damn, thats as bad as a divorce, the rejection of the mores, the values you tried to raise that child with and instill, basically the total rejection of everything you are and represent.
I think you have to imagine it as being a hypothetical child who is actually evil, not your present child who you (I assume) already know isn’t. There’s nothing that would make me disown my daughter either, because no matter what she did, I know she’s capable of love and empathy and remorse. If I had a child who was evil beyond redemption, that makes the question a lot harder to answer.
There is no “suppose” in love. Parental love is not “supposed” to be unconditional. It often is (or feels like it), but that does not mean it HAS to be. I mean, if you had a child rape you in the most sadistic way and murder your SO and all your other family members, and then tell you in the court room, “Yeah, I did it! And I’d do it all over again too!”, then I would not a blame you at all if the love for that person just evaporated. That doesn’t make you a bad parent. It makes you human.
Mouthing “I love you” in the courtroom sounds loving and kind, but it also creeps me me out. I hope the love they feel is genuine and not something they feel like they have to act out, just for show.
When my cousin was in his mid-20s, he was convicted of raping an elderly woman. My aunt never once wavered in her belief that he was innocent. The reason would change depending on who had offended her more that week (the cops never proved their case, the evidence was planted, his lawyer was shit, etc.), but always - he was innocent. He served a 15+ year prison term for his crimes and she spent that entire time either working to get him a new trial or to get him released on parole. After he’d finally been released, she threw a huge party to thank everyone who’d supported him.
I’m not a parent, so I have no idea what I would have done in her situation, but it was very surreal to watch. To the best of my knowledge, she’s never once considered him guilty and, having been at the trial, the evidence was pretty solid. I think her case is not just an example of parental love or devotion, but also strong denial. If, for instance, this had been my brother and our mother (who’s much more level-headed and rational than my aunt) was the one having to deal with the unthinkable, I can honestly say I have no idea how she would have reacted. From the kid’s perspective, I can’t imagine her ever disowning one of us, but then I can understand how she might have viewed my brother as unrecognizable to her because of his actions.
I’m sure none of those parents thought their children were evil beyond redemption when they were 12 years old, and probably don’t think so later even if everyone else does.
I have no doubt that’s true in many cases, but objectively there are almost always huge red flags starting when such a child is very young. But most parents of future sociopaths are extremely dysfunctional themselves, so that’s part of why they are less likely than the average parent to take the behavior as seriously as they should. (That’s what makes Casey Anthony’s story interesting to me–that from what I’ve heard, her family doesn’t necessarily seem to be bad.)
I can say for sure that my 11-year-old is not going to grow up to be a sociopath. I know some people could say that and be wrong, but I still know I’m right. I understand denial, but if my child was torturing animals or something, while I wouldn’t say she’s EVIL just yet, I also wouldn’t claim to be sure she won’t grow up to be.
I’m not sure I could disown, in the emotional sense, my child…but I’m sure that there are certain crimes which would be very difficult for me to forgive, and I think my list of unacceptable crimes begins far to the less-violent side of the crime spectrum than murdering his child.
That being said, my rule has been: If you go to jail or godforbidPRISON, I will write you every other day. I’ll send you books and puzzles and things to occupy your time. But I will not, ever, subject myself to the pain and trouble and hassle of visiting you. Because I’m not the one who did anything wrong, and I’m not punishing myself or your siblings for your bad choices.
So far, I haven’t had any kids in prison, although my older son was in jail for a few days for a minor crime. I neither bailed him out or visited, but I did accept charges when he called collect.
This is all assuming I knew my kid was guilty. If I really believed he was innocent, I’d go to bat for him.
remember that there is a difference between loving a child and enabling bad behavior. A parent isn’t loving their child if they help or fail to discourage bad behavior. If a child commits a crime, it is part of being a good parent to make sure the child learns the consequences of the crime and learns not to repeat the behavior. This may not be possible, but certainly the parent has a duty to do everything toward that goal-and a duty to never encourage/allow/enable bad behavior. Loving one’s child is important. Helping one’s child by not protecting them from the consequences of their behavior is part of that.
Good points, but I think you’re over-reaching, or possibly relying too heavily on the word ‘child.’
If the ‘child’ in question is a 35 year old biker sent up on a murder charge, what’s a parent to do … take his hog away for the month?
I’d never, ever stop loving her and probably wouldn’t cut off contact, but of course it’d depend on what she did.
Leave my millions of bucks to a more worthy recipient when I die? I got no problem doing that. You act a fool, you’re outta the will.
Of course not- but the parent also doesn’t have to put up bail, pay for a lawyer, help the child evade prosecution or any number of things a parent might do to protect a “child” from the consequences of is or her own behavior.