Covington Catholic High (in case it hasn't been mentioned already)

[doorhinge]

@Measure_for_Measure

Interesting quote:
Phillips shared in early testimony that he intended to go through the crowd to the top of the steps to sing the AIM song from that perch. In this upcoming video you see what I believe is the MOST IMPORTANT MOMENT of this controversy… 19/

Mr. Phillips goes right, then left, then tries to go through the center. Most of the group seems to understand and make a way for him, except the boy who didn’t move. Mr. Phillips said the boy blocked his path. He did. 20/ Phillips wants to walk up the steps. Smiley Teenface blocks his path. Again, teens do stupid shit. But conservative characterizations of the event - that Phillips walked up to Teenface - reflect compromised perceptions and weak character. Phillips was clearly trying to make his way through a crowd. Set aside respecting the elderly: this was a case of blocking traffic (within a crowd, though not on a sidewalk). Viewable in first 40 seconds of this you tube vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=39&v=wRyUlbgWCP0

Hahahaha. The “boy” was standing on the steps. The teenager didn’t move, or change his position. The teenager didn’t even talk. The old man walked up to the teenager, and tried to bully him with his incessant drumming, and with his caterwauling. The old man leaned left and right and continued drumming and wailing. The teenager didn’t move, or speak. The teenager didn’t do anything wrong. The teenager didn’t do anything illegal. If the annoying old man wanted the teenager to move out of his path, he had the option of politely asking the teenager to move. The old man wanted a confrontation and he didn’t get one.

Some people may hate this teenager because of the clothes he wore. Some people may hate this teenager because he’s white. Some people may hate this teenager because he’s Christian. Some people may hate this teenager simply because they are bored haters who needed a new cause celebre after Mueller denied the Buzzfeed fake news. Regardless, this teenager didn’t do anything wrong, and he was being bullied by the old man.

[doorhinge]

@simster

Basically he should get the fuck out of the way and let the man continue to his destination. His expression, in this case, only serves to solidify the narrative that he is an ass.

Seriously? The teenager is simply standing still. The old man chose to walk up to the teenager, and you expect the teenager to move out of the way? Why? Because you do not approve of the teenager’s clothing? Or because the teenager is white? Or because you don’t like the teenagers face?

[Skywatcher]

@Kyomara

Regardless of my earlier comments, if this incident shines a spotlight on all the kids flashing “white power” hand signals at their fucking basketball games and forces the school to reckon with the white supremacist environment it is clearly tolerating (if not outright encouraging), it will be a positive.

Damn straight!

[sps49sd]

Virtue signaling is also some Christians (there were some in my family) who would make sure you knew they were more Christian than others, even if they did not always act like good Christians should themselves.

[Ale]

@Evil_Economist

Yeah, you don’t care either, buddy. You’re just pretending outrage.

Here’s a challenge for you: the most visible recent victim of mob mentality is Dr Ford, who’s had to move several times to avoid death threats simply because she testified that she’d been attacked by a conservative.

Now, either show that you actually care about mob mentality by linking your posts decrying those mob attacks, or fuck off with your pretend outrage, internet tough guy.

Bullying and harassing is bad, it’s bad about the kids this thread is about and it’s bad against that woman and against anyone else.
As I said, this is a matter of principles and I have expressed this principle in many places over many events. You are now playing the game of whattaboutism,.
But if you insist, can you point to me to a similar thread created here at the SDMB with the purpose of attacking Ford, where people engage in Internet mob behaviour, condone and incite bullying and harassment? Because I don’t recall seen one, but if there is I’d be happy to go there and tell anyone who is doing what you are doing here against those kids to knock it off.

You, and others, are the ones condoning, defending and participating in online bullying and harassment, right here, right now.
There’s an analogy I read once that is quite apt “the snowflake doesn’t blame itself for the avalanche”.
The only thing you have done to justify being part of a hate mob falling on a group of kids is it is to point a finger at others and assume that they have done the same or worse so it’s OK to do it, that those kids have it coming for belonging to a different tribe, playing the game of guilt by association and so on and so forth.
It’s such a stupid and morally bankrupt thing to do, well those evil people do this thing too (and that’s why we think they are evil) so why are you telling me not to, huh? Gotcha!. It’s that it? You are just painting yourself as being no better than the people you hate, well done.

What that tells is that you know what you are doing is wrong and you do it anyway because you feel justified from an Us Vs. Them perspective, where Us = Good and Them = Bad, so anything Us do is good and anyone who says otherwise is Them and therefore bad. What a wonderful moral license, to feel that the only reason someone would tell you to stop doing something is that they are bad people trying to stop you from doing good things.

You need to let it sink in: right now, right here, you are part of an Internet mob.

[monstro]

@BigT

@monstro

I’m not going to stop saying “virtue signaling”. I can’t think of a better way of describing people who shit their pants over football players who kneel during the NA but who don’t have a problem with people booing those players during the NA.

That doesn’t fit the definition. Virtue signaling is saying something to make yourself look good.That doesn’t fit the definition. Virtue signaling is saying something to make yourself look good.

I’m talking about the people who make a big show of condemning the kneeling football players, but who don’t seem to care about any of the real forms of disrespect that happen during the NA. The Mike Pence 49ers Flounce is a perfect example of “virtue signaling” to me.

I don’t know who invented “special snowflake”, but I think it’s an apt description for lots of people–including conservatives. So I’ma keep using that one too, thankyouverymuch.

[Ale]

@Guest-starring_Id

I’m glad that an air-tight consensus was reached as to what happened.

I can picture it, a red box on the wall, a pitchfork and a torch inside with the words “In case of Doubt Break Glass” written on it.

[simster]

@doorhinge

Seriously? The teenager is simply standing still. The old man chose to walk up to the teenager, and you expect the teenager to move out of the way? Why? Because you do not approve of the teenager’s clothing? Or because the teenager is white? Or because you don’t like the teenagers face?

much simpler than that - because the teenager is standing in someone else’s way, someone else that is trying to get to a point beyond where this teenager is standing. Other teenagers in attendance were able to step aside and let this person move thru the crowd - its called ‘courtesy’ - look it up.

[Eonwe]

@simster

He had a simple choice - stand in the persons way - smirking - or moving out of the way. He was not standing between the drummer and someone that needed protecting from the drummer - nor was the drummer acting in a violent or confrontational way - its easy to see it was a native chant/ceremony.

If he were trying to avoid confrontation - he steps to the side (he can still smirk, make fun, etc).

If he wanted to try and provoke a confrontation - he stands there smirking.

I know which one I would expect a ‘christian’ to do, and which one I expect an ass to do.

(christian is irrelevant, but thats what the smirking kid claims to be representing here, right?)

So the facial expression that would have been more appropriate for that situation would be “don’t be in that situation”?

[doorhinge]

@simster

much simpler than that - because the teenager is standing in someone else’s way, someone else that is trying to get to a point beyond where this teenager is standing. Other teenagers in attendance were able to step aside and let this person move thru the crowd - its called ‘courtesy’ - look it up.

What is courteous about walking up to someone and pounding a drum mere inches from their face? The old man was looking for a confrontation, and he attempted to bully the students until he got one. The teenager wouldn’t be bullied. The teenager stood his ground. You can try to justify the old man’s bullying tactic any way you chose.

[Xema]

Here’s a reason.com article that includes a long statement from Nick Sandmann, “the kid with the smirk”.

IMO, he’s either being sincere here or has extraordinary talent at dissimulation.

@Nick Sandmann

I am providing this factual account of what happened on Friday afternoon at the Lincoln Memorial to correct misinformation and outright lies being spread about my family and me.

I am the student in the video who was confronted by the Native American protestor. I arrived at the Lincoln Memorial at 4:30 p.m. I was told to be there by 5:30 p.m., when our busses were due to leave Washington for the trip back to Kentucky. We had been attending the March for Life rally, and then had split up into small groups to do sightseeing.

When we arrived, we noticed four African American protestors who were also on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial. I am not sure what they were protesting, and I did not interact with them. I did hear them direct derogatory insults at our school group.

The protestors said hateful things. They called us "racists," "bigots," "white crackers," "faggots," and "incest kids." They also taunted an African American student from my school by telling him that we would "harvest his organs." I have no idea what that insult means, but it was startling to hear.

Because we were being loudly attacked and taunted in public, a student in our group asked one of our teacher chaperones for permission to begin our school spirit chants to counter the hateful things that were being shouted at our group. The chants are commonly used at sporting events. They are all positive in nature and sound like what you would hear at any high school. Our chaperone gave us permission to use our school chants. We would not have done that without obtaining permission from the adults in charge of our group.

At no time did I hear any student chant anything other than the school spirit chants. I did not witness or hear any students chant "build that wall" or anything hateful or racist at any time. Assertions to the contrary are simply false. Our chants were loud because we wanted to drown out the hateful comments that were being shouted at us by the protestors.

After a few minutes of chanting, the Native American protestors, who I hadn't previously noticed, approached our group. The Native American protestors had drums and were accompanied by at least one person with a camera.

The protestor everyone has seen in the video began playing his drum as he waded into the crowd, which parted for him. I did not see anyone try to block his path. He locked eyes with me and approached me, coming within inches of my face. He played his drum the entire time he was in my face.

I never interacted with this protestor. I did not speak to him. I did not make any hand gestures or other aggressive moves. To be honest, I was startled and confused as to why he had approached me. We had already been yelled at by another group of protestors, and when the second group approached I was worried that a situation was getting out of control where adults were attempting to provoke teenagers.

I believed that by remaining motionless and calm, I was helping to diffuse the situation. I realized everyone had cameras and that perhaps a group of adults was trying to provoke a group of teenagers into a larger conflict. I said a silent prayer that the situation would not get out of hand.

During the period of the drumming, a member of the protestor's entourage began yelling at a fellow student that we "stole our land" and that we should "go back to Europe." I heard one of my fellow students begin to respond. I motioned to my classmate and tried to get him to stop engaging with the protestor, as I was still in the mindset that we needed to calm down tensions.

I never felt like I was blocking the Native American protestor. He did not make any attempt to go around me. It was clear to me that he had singled me out for a confrontation, although I am not sure why.

The engagement ended when one of our teachers told me the busses had arrived and it was time to go. I obeyed my teacher and simply walked to the busses. At that moment, I thought I had diffused the situation by remaining calm, and I was thankful nothing physical had occurred.

I never understood why either of the two groups of protestors were engaging with us, or exactly what they were protesting at the Lincoln Memorial. We were simply there to meet a bus, not become central players in a media spectacle. This is the first time in my life I've ever encountered any sort of public protest, let alone this kind of confrontation or demonstration.

I was not intentionally making faces at the protestor. I did smile at one point because I wanted him to know that I was not going to become angry, intimidated or be provoked into a larger confrontation. I am a faithful Christian and practicing Catholic, and I always try to live up to the ideals my faith teaches me – to remain respectful of others, and to take no action that would lead to conflict or violence.

I harbor no ill will for this person. I respect this person's right to protest and engage in free speech activities, and I support his chanting on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial any day of the week. I believe he should re-think his tactics of invading the personal space of others, but that is his choice to make.

I am being called every name in the book, including a racist, and I will not stand for this mob-like character assassination of my family's name. My parents were not on the trip, and I strive to represent my family in a respectful way in all public settings.

I have received physical and death threats via social media, as well as hateful insults. One person threatened to harm me at school, and one person claims to live in my neighborhood. My parents are receiving death and professional threats because of the social media mob that has formed over this issue.

I love my school, my teachers and my classmates. I work hard to achieve good grades and to participate in several extracurricular activities. I am mortified that so many people have come to believe something that did not happen – that students from my school were chanting or acting in a racist fashion toward African Americans or Native Americans. I did not do that, do not have hateful feelings in my heart, and did not witness any of my classmates doing that.

I cannot speak for everyone, only for myself. But I can tell you my experience with Covington Catholic is that students are respectful of all races and cultures. We also support everyone's right to free speech. I am not going to comment on the words or account of Mr. Phillips, as I don't know him and would not presume to know what is in his heart or mind. Nor am I going to comment further on the other protestors, as I don't know their hearts or minds, either.

I have read that Mr. Phillips is a veteran of the United States Marines. I thank him for his service and am grateful to anyone who puts on the uniform to defend our nation. If anyone has earned the right to speak freely, it is a U.S. Marine veteran.

I can only speak for myself and what I observed and felt at the time. But I would caution everyone passing judgement based on a few seconds of video to watch the longer video clips that are on the internet, as they show a much different story than is being portrayed by people with agendas.

I provided this account of events to the Diocese of Covington so they may know exactly what happened, and I stand ready and willing to cooperate with any investigation they are conducting.

[simster]

@doorhinge

What is courteous about walking up to someone and pounding a drum mere inches from their face? The old man was looking for a confrontation, and he attempted to bully the students until he got one. The teenager wouldn’t be bullied. The teenager stood his ground. You can try to justify the old man’s bullying tactic any way you chose.

you are truly a special kind of delusional - enjoy yourself.

[GIGObuster]

@doorhinge

What is courteous about walking up to someone and pounding a drum mere inches from their face? The old man was looking for a confrontation, and he attempted to bully the students until he got one. The teenager wouldn’t be bullied. The teenager stood his ground. You can try to justify the old man’s bullying tactic any way you chose.

As it turns out, the teenagers stood away eventually, see the NYT report. As pointed before, there is a lesson here about standing up for what is right, but too bad that it does not fit your prejudice.

[Kimstu]

@Ale

Bullying and harassing is bad, it’s bad about the kids this thread is about and it’s bad against that woman and against anyone else.
As I said, this is a matter of principles and I have expressed this principle in many places over many events.

:rolleyes: This from the guy who defended alt-right harassing troll and Gamergater-baiter Milo Yiannopoulos by claiming that “the hatred he receives from the Left is in large part due to him being a threat to the Left brand image”.

Your “principle” that “bullying and harassing is bad” doesn’t seem to have troubled you much when it was Yiannopoulos who was bullying and harassing people. You simply downplayed his behavior as just being a “professional troll” who’s (allegedly) undeservedly hated because he’s (allegedly) “drawing people away from the progressive left”.

Given your track record, I’m not exactly impressed with your newfound “principle” of (alleged) opposition to bullying and harassment.

[Skywatcher]

Surprise, surprise: the diocese that Covington Catholic is in doesn’t like teh gay, either.

[doorhinge]

@GIGObuster

As it turns out, the teenagers stood away eventually, see the NYT report. As pointed before, there is a lesson here about standing up for what is right, but too bad that it does not fit your prejudice.

Are you one of those people who pre-judged the teenager based on claims, innuendo, rumors, and feelings? Or are one of those people who demand that people get out of your way based on how loud you bang your unconvincing drum?

[Rick_Kitchen]

@Xema

Here’s a reason.com article that includes a long statement from Nick Sandmann, “the kid with the smirk”.

IMO, he’s either being sincere here or has extraordinary talent at dissimulation.

No 16-year-old wrote that.

[GIGObuster]

@Xema

Here’s a reason.com article that includes a long statement from Nick Sandmann, “the kid with the smirk”.

IMO, he’s either being sincere here or has extraordinary talent at dissimulation.

Of notice is that indeed, he does not mention the MAGA hats. As for the article, there is no mention about the very recent insults tossed by the MAGAT in chief that landed not only on Elizabeth Warren but on all Native Americans. One should mention that I also do not agree with the Black Israelis, although that it does seem that the Reason Magazine writer is an ignorant of the accusations that have been launched against Trump and the support by him to people like Roy Moore. Point being that while I do not agree with BI, ignoring why a peculiar insult was used by them sounds a bit naive when a “role model” of the teens supported very reprehensible people in an attempt at getting positions of power or to possibly get them off the hook.

[GIGObuster]

@doorhinge

Are you one of those people who pre-judged the teenager based on claims, innuendo, rumors, and feelings? Or are one of those people who demand that people get out of your way based on how loud you bang your unconvincing drum?

Since I pointed at a report that looked at the big picture, it is clear that you only showed all how a willful ignorant of context and what was posted before you are.

[doorhinge]

@simster

you are truly a special kind of delusional - enjoy yourself.

I was thinking the same thing about you. Except for the “enjoy yourself” part, of course. You can chose to advocate for bullying teenagers if you chose. That’s your choice. Convincing others to buy into your delusion is something else.