Covington Catholic High (in case it hasn't been mentioned already)

[Kimstu]

@Ale

Yes, Yannopoulos has engaged in bullying and harassment and where he has done so I have no problem in denouncing it

But you weren’t denouncing it in the thread I linked to, which was all about his bullying and harassment and other shitty behavior. Instead, you were trying to claim that Yiannopoulos was being unfairly vilified, not because he did shitty stuff, but just because “the left” were all upset about a gay man reversing their narrative or some such nonsense.

@Ale

Just saying, you know, most people drop the “but he did it too” excuse by age five or so.

My point is not “but he did it too”; my point is “Ale gets all indignant about it when right-wingers are the targets of it but not when right-wingers are the perpetrators of it”.

@Ale

I do take notice that in order to show my “track record” of opposing cyber bullying and harassment you went trawling for old posts but choose you bring up none where I have explicitly talked against cyber bullying and harassment, of which I’m sure there are plenty

When somebody points out particular posts showing your attitude on a certain issue to be somewhat hypocritical, you don’t get a pass on your hypocrisy just by whining that they ought to have sought out different posts where you allegedly look less hypocritical.

If you want to show us posts where you denounce cyber bullying and harassment perpetrated by conservatives as strongly as you denounce cyber bullying and harassment targeted at conservatives, feel free. But as I noted, your remarks about Yiannopoulos’s bullying and harassment are defending him rather than denouncing him.

[doorhinge]

@VinylTurnip

I’m curious: what’s it like when you wake up every morning— fresh off an adventure-dream about flying like Superman, or having consensual sexual intercourse with an attractive Hollywood actress or farm animal— and you experience that terrible moment of realization where you remember that you’re you, stuck living your life? It has to be crushing.

Stop hitting on me, perv. This isn’t a dating site. (This isn’t a dating site, is it? Nah, this isn’t a dating site.)

[The_Tooth]

I’m confused. Which of these kids isn’t being an asshole again?

[doorhinge]

@Czarcasm

I just noticed your “response” to this topic in Great Debates, so, to speak in a way that you might understand:
Lame stream media? Lame stream media lame media lame lame! Media stream stream lame lame, lame stream stream media, media lame media media! Stream main stream main media-lame lame lame stream, media lame. Lame media, media stream!
Media?
STREAM!!

When did you develop such a stutter? You make it look goooood.

[elucidator]

@VinylTurnip

I’m curious: what’s it like when you wake up every morning— fresh off an adventure-dream about flying like Superman, or having consensual sexual intercourse with an attractive Hollywood actress or farm animal— and you experience that terrible moment of realization where you remember that you’re you, stuck living your life? It has to be crushing.

Don’t know about him, but I usually have coffee.

[Dacien]

One conclusion I’ve reached over the past couple days is that continuing the smear of these kids might really be “doing evil in the name of good.” People are concerned that if it catches on, in a widespread manner, that this story is not at all how it was portrayed early on in the media, a bunch of a racist white kids approaching, surrounding, and harassing a Native American vet, that people will downplay or discount the problem of racial discrimination. “See! It didn’t happen! Racial discrimination isn’t the problem it’s made out to be.” This is obviously false, and the greater issue is of great concern to many, understandably, so these kids sort of have to be the sacrificial lambs.

I thinks it horrifying, but in issues that perplex me, such as how people could possibly still be determined to skewer these kids, I’m always trying to fit the square peg in the square hole, and this conclusion helps me do that. It’s the most charitable conclusion I can come to, and I try to be charitable, not cynical.

[Two_Many_Cats]

Who here can absolutely tell an arrogant smirk from an embarrassed smile? Show of hands?

[Budget_Player_Cadet]

Boy we sure are ruining their lives

[Elmore]

What I don’t get is that, apparently, Phillips went over to the boys because he wanted (allegedly) to stop violence from breaking out between the boys and the black Hebrews. That’s what he told the Washington Post. But when he got there, he didn’t speak to the kids. He didn’t ask them to calm down. He didn’t draw on his experiences as a Vietnam vet to try and convince them that violence never solves anything. No, he just banged that stupid fucking drum and sang that incomprehensible song.

What were the kids supposed to think? How were they supposed to know that Phillips was trying to keep the peace? How were they supposed to know he wasn’t trying to stir things up? They’d just spent an hour being called organ harvesting faggot crackers by a gang of Huey Freemans. How were they supposed to know Phillips and his gang weren’t more of the same? Especially when Phillips’ asshole friend told them they were invaders who should ‘Get back to Europe’. How were they meant to know Phillips wasn’t doing exactly what it looked like he was doing and taking his protest to them like they were somehow responsible for Native disenfranchisement? And under those circumstances, why would anyone expect a large crowd of immature, excitable, hyped-up teenage boys to act any different to how they did?

And how, exactly, was Phillips’ little intervention supposed to keep the peace? Walk me through his battle plan. Was he trying to draw the ire of the crowd away from the black Hebrews? If so, he got exactly what he wanted. The fact he went on TV to complain about the kids behaviour implies he didn’t get what he wanted. So what the fuck did he want? Did he think walking up to the kids and banging his drum at them and singing at them was going to somehow mollify them? If so, what kind of fucking idiot is he?

The more I hear about this, the less inclined I am to condemn the kids. Granted, this is partly because my twitter is full of verified blue check mark cunts saying shit like ”I’ll blow anyone who punches that kid in the face”, or ”Has anyone ever seen a more punchable face?”, or ”Some kids deserve to get punched”, or ”If anyone punches that MAGA kid square in the nuts I’ll send them all my albums autographed on vinyl”, all of which, incidentally, is about a billion times crueller and more mean-spirited than, say, making fun of Leslie Jones. But mostly, this is because Phillips brought this on himself. If he’d ignored them, it wouldn’t have happened. If he’d gone round them, it wouldn’t have happened. Hell, if he’d just explained himself, it at least probably wouldn’t have happened. Instead, he went over to the kids with that stupid fucking drum, kept his motives to himself and expected the kids to…well, fuck knows what he expected them to do.

Frankly, given his actions, given that he went over to them, given that, in the Post article he described the kids as “beasts” and the black Hebrews as their “prey”, I think the most likely explanation is that he saw the MAGA hats and decided, like most people on Twitter and on here, that he’d give them some shit. Well, he got some shit. Boo-fucking-hoo.

[octopus]

@Measure_for_Measure

Disagree. Josh Marshall at TPM: I’m sure there was some element of being startled or even confused. Few of us are ever thinking only one thing in a chaotic situation. But I see no way to reconcile Sandmann’s claims with what’s actually on the video. He can be seen hipping and hawing around Phillips like the rest of the kids just before the stand off and he seems more cocky and defiant than anything like trying to appeal for calm in the video that went viral. Eyewitnesses claim they heard the boys making various denigrating remarks about Native Americans. I heard some of those on the video but not all of them. Phillips and Sandmann gave conflicting accounts of whether Sandmann refused to move as Phillips tried to walk up the steps. At least the video itself makes it hard to resolve that.

…But again, I don’t think Sandmann’s explanation is credible. I think he decided to stand his ground, get in the guy’s face, and smile a kind of satisfied smile to show he wasn’t backing down. Meanwhile, his friends are surrounding both of them, goofing, taunting, jeering. Again, the chopping hand motion tells the story.
Making Sense of the Phillips-Sandmann Viral Video - TPM – Talking Points Memo

When someone is moving from point A to point B in a crowded public space, you step aside. I’m surprised this even needs explaining frankly. The steps were behind Smirkface: the teen was blocking traffic. Now again, teens do stupid shit. I’m dismayed by the lack of remorse or reflection in the PR assisted public statement.

If only George Orwell were alive today. He could add hatcrime to the list of grievous offense that included “facecrime” with gratuitous smirkery.

[pulykamell]

@Elmore

Frankly, given his actions, given that he went over to them, given that, in the Post article he described the kids as “beasts” and the black Hebrews as their “prey”, I think the most likely explanation is that he saw the MAGA hats and decided, like most people on Twitter and on here, that he’d give them some shit. Well, he got some shit. Boo-fucking-hoo.

I have to say, all things considered, and being quite on the other side of MAGA-hat wearing idiots, this is the conclusion I come to.

[VinylTurnip]

Isn’t that just like an Indian? Brings a drum to a smirk fight!

[Guinastasia]

Basically: a bunch of assholes confront anconfront another bunch another bunch of assholes and some old dude steps in and tries calm things down, but then he just get tangles up in all the other assholes?
Do I have it right?

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@octopus

If only George Orwell were alive today. He could add hatcrime to the list of grievous offense that included “facecrime” with gratuitous smirkery.

George Orwell was a hardcore socialist, and borderline anarchist, and he would have fucking loathed you, loathed Trump, and loathed these boys. Summon him at your peril.

[doorhinge]

@Guinastasia

Basically: a bunch of assholes confront anconfront another bunch another bunch of assholes and some old dude steps in and tries calm things down, but then he just get tangles up in all the other assholes?
Do I have it right?

It’s really difficult to tell.

[Guinastasia]

Basically: a bunch of assholes confront another bunch of assholes and of dude steps in and tries calm things down, but then he just get tangles up in some bunch of assholes…blac bla blah

Do I have I It right?

[Sherrerd]

@Elmore

What I don’t get is that, apparently, Phillips went over to the boys because he wanted (allegedly) to stop violence from breaking out between the boys and the black Hebrews. That’s what he told the Washington Post. But when he got there, he didn’t speak to the kids. He didn’t ask them to calm down. He didn’t draw on his experiences as a Vietnam vet to try and convince them that violence never solves anything. No, he just banged that stupid fucking drum and sang that incomprehensible song. …

My impression is that Phillips felt he was performing a religious ritual that (basically) had a supernatural capacity to calm both the black people and the white kids.

I’ve seen one of his interviews, and I came away believing he was sincere about this.

[doorhinge]

@Budget_Player_Cadet

Boy we sure are ruining their lives

It’s not from a lack of trying by the racists on the left. Maybe it’s more like a lack of credibility, or maybe an increased lack of credibility, by the lame stream media.

[VinylTurnip]

@Left_Hand_of_Dorkness

George Orwell was a hardcore socialist, and borderline anarchist, and he would have fucking loathed you, loathed Trump, and loathed these boys. Summon him at your peril.

Four legs good, two legs bad, eight legs is the fucking worst.

[Measure_for_Measure]

@doorhinge

(post shortened)

The steps at the Lincoln Memorial are approximately 100 feet wide. Plenty of room to pass around the targeted teenager, and proceed to the top of the steps, IF that had been the intention of the old man, and his entourage. It wasn’t. It appears that the old men, and his entourage, were looking to create an incident that would give their cause some airplay. Thanks to the usual racists, Democrats, and lame stream media-types, they hit the jackpot with the help of the usual mob mentality.

Oh, bullshit: the veteran was surrounded by a crowd and was being blocked by a Smirky Teenface. There were shots of him making his way through the crowd, and most of the kids doing what normal people do: they made way. This wasn’t a rock concert.

The veteran did the right thing in not attempting to find another path: that would have been a challenge to the crowd. Instead, he used distraction.

@octopus

If only George Orwell were alive today. He could add hatcrime to the list of grievous offense that included “facecrime” with gratuitous smirkery.

Smiling with eye contact and getting 4 inches in front of somebody’s face is provocative behavior, something that normal people are aware of.

Again, this is asshole teens acting like asshole teens. It’s permitted. Adults shouldn’t encourage them though.

@Sherrerd

My impression is that Phillips felt he was performing a religious ritual that (basically) had a supernatural capacity to calm both the black people and the white kids.

I’ve seen one of his interviews, and I came away believing he was sincere about this.

In my limited experience, creating a distraction within a crowd is a hell of a lot more effective and safe than attempting to engage aka argue with it. Forget about the supernatural: the veteran did the right thing. He perceived a potentially violent situation, drew upon his life experiences, asked to borrow a drum, and started performing. The fact that the drum was not his own suggests that this thing wasn’t pre-planned, notwithstanding the paranoid imagination of Mr. Hinge.

Engaging with a mob is highly unwise and I do not recommend it.