Willie Nelson was considered liberal among country musicians even back when country music wasn’t so conservative. In 1970, he moved from Nashville to Austin to get away from the stodgy country music establishment. He and a few other country musicians around Austin became known as the “outlaw country” singers. Still, country music wasn’t as caught up with conservatism as it is now, and most of the major country stars supported Carter rather than Ford in the 1976 election. Furthermore, Nelson hasn’t for the past two or three decades attempted to hide the fact that he smokes marijuana.
The Dixie Chicks certainly did. They may every effort to marytr themselves. Check out the Entertainment article (no cite) and I’ll start digging up some of their comments from the Irish Times and the Guardian.
Do you really doubt that bigots will boycott/protest/whatever over this song?
I’m not sure. Is it worth 99c to gamble? If it does work for you, off fo iTunes, that will be good for you to know, right?
Lochdale, this debate has happened hundreds of times at SDMB. Please open a GD thread if you’re interested in going over this ground again.
Bottom line, you seem to be willing to offer people who are bigoted against homosexuals more respect than you would, say, people who are bigoted against blacks. The general consensus around here (for which I take some credit, after banging this drum for nigh on 6 years now, just in this forum), is that neither form of bigotry is worthy of respect, even if the right to express such bigotry is.
Again, a subject that often results in lively debate, but that’s not what this thread is about.
They responded to SPEECH with SPEECH.
Period. Nobody tried to infringe on anyone else’s right to speak their mind. Ditto Clooney. No one ever suggested that such protests shouldn’t be allowed, or anything remotely like that. Got it?
They responded to SPEECH with SPEECH.
Now. Howbout that new thread?
I genuinely do not think they did. The Dixie Chicks painted themselves as victims that’s an honest assessment of that particular situation. So no, they didn’t respond with mere speech. They were aided and abetted by a media machine that spun the “victim” angle when they were anything but.
That said, this really is the wrong place.
Speaking of Willie though, I always loved the video for Pancho and Lefty.
I’m still waiting to see a cite that the Dixie Chicks ever said that no one had a right to boycott them or protest.
How is that not respectful of their critic’s right to free speech? Where did they ever suggest that people didn’t have the right to criticize them? Pointing out that a comment or argument is unfair, incorrect, deceitful, or bigoted is not remotely the same as trying to suppress that speech. In what manner did the Dixie Chicks ever act to prevent someone from speaking their mind?
The important thing to remember about Country is that the same rules apply to it as apply to any other musical style; ninety percent of is is utter crap.
Now, for instance lets say you are a fan of Pop, or Grunge, or Hip Hop or whatever. Now, you know who the good artists are and what the good songs are. Of course, ninety percent of what’s out there is still crap but since you’re a fan you know where to look.
Likewise, when listening to the radio ninety percent of what’s played is still usually crap. But, if you’re a fan of that particular genre you’ve learned to tune the crap out and pay attention to the occasional good song. Take Eighties music for example. I’m a big fan of Eighties but most of it wasn’t very good. Now, even when listening to eighties stations [which have an advantage over contempory music in that most of what they play is the stuff that was at least memorable enough to be… well remembered] I probably only enjoy 1 out of every 5 or so songs; and that’s as a fan of the genre.
Now imagine if I hadn’t been exposed to Eighties music before. I’d probably quickly conclude that it was utter garbage before I got to that one good song.
Anyway, I had the same opinion of modern Country music until I was forced to listen to a great deal of it over a span of several years. Eventually I discovered that there are a few artists producing today that don’t suck. Of course, I had a bit of a ‘leg-up’ in that I was a big Willie, Pasty and Jonny fan from the start. I had just put them in a completely seperate genre from “Modern Country.”
Joan Baez went country. The Byrds went country. Bob Dylan went country. Michelle Shocked went country. Even Roxy Music went country (on one song, “Psalm”)!
It can’t be all bad…
I once started a thread on leftist country music largely inspired by Willie Nelson and the Dixie Chicks. The people who bought Dixie Chicks CDs in support even though they never listened to them. (Thinking, If only they’d done some other sort of music!) At Amazon, a user-contributed list of lesbian music recommendations said:
I still haven’t actually bought any country music, except for Arkansas Traveler by Michelle Shocked. I was in the streets with her when she mooned the White House.
My problem with their reaction was that they tried to paint those who objected to them as unreasonable rednecks. It’s akin to those on the right claiming that anyone who critiques the war in Iraq or the President is somehow “un-American”. Both are subtle efforts to stiffle honest and direct criticism. Again, free speech comes with consequences.
Since the Dixie Chicks are Texans, I can assure you they are used to rednecks. The Clear Channel execs who fanned the flames of boycott are definitely suits. I don’t remember the Chicks “painting” anyone. Photos of the protesters were unflattering enough. The Chicks did object to a couple of death threats–perhaps they were being overly sensitive.
Anyway–what do you think about the tune? Do you like Willie Nelson? What are your other Country faves?
I just have to disagree. They presented themselves are martyr’t to the cause of free speech when they were anything but. As I said, free speech comes with a price and when you take a stand you have to live with the consequences.
I like Willie Nelson though he’s phoned more than his fair share of albulms in. In many ways he’s more of a rebel than Cash was what with the liberal politics and fairly open marijuana use.
I like some of Elvis Presley’s country music which has a nice tempo. Merle Haggard gives a fantastic live show (I’ve seen him 3x now).
As for the tune itself, well it doesn’t do much for me and I think it’s kind of bland.
Cite?
Cite?
I love Willie, and I’ve got no problem with gays - but this song is terrible musically!
(Just my opinion.)
I wouldn’t say it’s terrible, but then I don’t like country, so I wouldn’t really know. I agree with Lochdale it’s a very generic, cookie-cutter kind of country that could be heard in innumerable juke-boxes around the country and no one would notice much more than one notices muzak in an elevator.
Neither of those examples have anything to do with disrespecting someone’s right to free speech. They may both be dishonest attacks on the character of the person speaking, but it’s not even remotely the same thing as attacking the principle of free speech, or a person’s right to the exercise thereof.
Your position here really makes no sense at all. The Dixie Chicks wrote a song critical of George Bush. This is an example of free speech: we both agree on that, right? A bunch of people got pissed at them because of it, and protested, and called the Dixie Chicks unAmerican and so forth. This, also, is an example of free speech. In response, the Dixie Chicks complained about the people protesting them and, maybe, they presented themselves as martyrs and their critics as ignorant rednecks. This is also free speech. In fact, it’s free speech that differs from the speech of their detractors in no way that I can discern. How was the Dixie Chick’s response to their critics disrespectful of their right to free speech, when their detractor’s response to the original song wasn’t? Heck, these were people actively trying to prevent the Chick’s music from being played! If anyone in this situation was trying to stiffle someone’s speech, it was the people organizing the boycott! How is it that the Dixie Chicks are the focus of your criticism in this situation, and not them?