I tried to read all the postings but in case this hasn’t been mentioned, Willie’s song is the current topic in the comic strip “Boondocks”. (The irrascible grandfather is reacting curmudgeonly about it). Which reminds me, a few months ago, the grandfather was all excited about a new Western movie that was opening. He was saying it was nice to see a return to the way movies used to be. (Eventually, he learns what the movie is really about).
I’ve always admired Willie Nelson for being such a free spirit and overcoming tremendous adversity. (Remember some time back when he owed a shitload of money to the IRS? He paid them everything they said he owed. I also believe it was mainly the fault of his accounting firm -Price Waterhouse I think- who royally screwed up his finances). Also, around the same time, his son committed suicide. Damn that guy has been through a lot of shit in his life.
Hell, Willie now drives a biodiesel tour bus that runs off (as you probably know), restaurant grease!!
I think it is great that Willie has chosen to release this song. (I haven’t even heard it, but I just like the idea that Mr Nelson is being his usual iconoclastic self).
As far as my favorite Willie Nelson song, I’d say it is “Still Is Still Moving To Me” from 1993 I think it was.
Except for this thread, I’ve heard no discussion of it at all.
In Oklahoma (a producer of its own type of Country Music, as different from Nashville as it is from Bakersfield) we have choices of two different major corporate Country Radio franchises, and a shitload of self programmed (Free Range Country) independemts.
I think most of us C/W fans are simply listening to music. Maybe they’re discussing it in the barber shops or Dairy Queens, but I wouldn’t know. Also, be careful as to how you look for some sort of contraversy. Wouldn’t want to see you accused of itchin’ for a fight, now would we? Then again, what with this being the home of Toby the Great Almighty Patriot Mouth, I really am kind of surprised that nothing has popped up yet over here. Or have I missed it?
Heh. Besides, it’s Willie Nelson we’re talking about here. First, it’s the sort of thing he’d do anyway, and everybody’s used to that. Second, Nelson’s earned the right to sing about whatever he wants to sing about.
I avoid country music*, so I’ve got no idea what they’re saying on those stations**, but I heard it last night on the KATT (rock station) in OKC. I didn’t hear the preliminaries (apparently they had a lengthy discussion), but did tune in to hear part of the song after a call from the WomanChild. Haven’t heard anything else about it except here.
I appreciate the link - finally got to hear the whole thing. (I’d already listed to part of the Pansy Division version.) I don’t have Itunes or any way to play them. I guess I should send Willie a dollar - anybody got his address? I could just drive it all down if anyone else needed to send some.
I must say I’m not terribly impressed with the tune, but ya gotta love Willie for singing it.
*Except Cash, Nelson, Cline, some Dixie Chicks (are they country? that’s the problem these days, most current country just sounds like nasal pop), Hank Sr., maybe a couple more I can’t think of right now.
**Any station where I might have to listen to Barf Brooks or Toby PleaseOgMakeMeDeef, is avoided like the frikkin plague.
Yes, it is a moral stance. No, it’s not universal. If it were universal, it wouldn’t be a moral stance, would it? Morality only has meaning in contrast to immoral behavior.
This is nonsense. Yes, from the viewpoint of homophobes, homophobia is not immoral. So what? From the viewpoint of a gentile, eating pork isn’t immoral. From the viewpoint of an atheist, taking the Lord’s name in vain isn’t immoral. From the viewpoint of a communist, the redistribution of wealth isn’t immoral. From the viewpoint of someone who supports the military, joining the army isn’t immoral. From the viewpoint of a pacifist, dodging the draft isn’t immoral. The fact that an issue is debatable does not preclude one from taking a moral stand on the issue.
No, it’s not. Do you even know what a circular argument is?
First of all, this discussion likely needs to move to the pit as it really isn’t about the song.
Second of all, the only indication I can find for the “Martyrdom” of the Dixie Chicks is their Entertainment Weekly cover in which they were stripped and branded by hate-words, and as such depicted as having suffered for their excercise of “Free Speech.”
My observation, is that the right made them martyrs and they embraced it as a way of striking back at the right. So, IMHO, pretty much everyone on both sides acted stupidly in reaction to Maines poorly thought out actions. The whole thing was pretty much a fluster-cluck, regardless of which side you want to choose.
The EW cover is available pretty much everywhere and could be considered NWF as they are nude, but tastefully so.
I’m putting the link in, but going to try to disable it.
I think Willie has thought this out, knows where he stands, and feels relatively safe in releasing this song as he has. Because it isn’t available commercially outside iTunes and not being pushed to radio stations, it is pretty much a wink and a high five to the gay community from Willie saying, “I’ll support you.”
But I, for one, would like to see the discussion of the Dixies and bigotry moved to the pit and out of CS.
Yep–I had no idea it was a real song! Thanks for the heads up, lissener; I’m a medium fan of Willie Nelson, but I would’ve missed this otherwise.
Someone asked for some recommendations for his other music. Personally, I really like Teatro a lot: it’s got a lot of Mexican sounds in it, and it’s haunting and beautiful. Across the Borderline is my next favorite by him. His older stuff doesn’t do much for me: it’s just a little too hokey.
Finally, a country star that hasn’t been mentioned yet that y’all need to listen to: Robert Earl Keen. Fantastic guy, with hilarious concerts: the crowd is about two-thirds rednecks and one-third artsyfartsy types, and the Coors Light mingles with the microbrews. It’s kinda cool.
Actually they didn’t write a song critical of Bush. They basically called him an idiot while performing at a concert in London.
I am not suggesting that it isn’t free speech. What I am saying is that certain comments that were made suggesting that anyone who disagreed with or critized the Dixie Chicks was a red neck were an effort to stiffle free speech. It’s akin to saying that someone is “Un-American” if they criticize the war etc. Both are efforts to curtail free speech.
No, I get your point entirely. And it’s utterly without merit. Criticizing someone for the content of their speech, even if the criticism is inaccurate, unfair, or out-right prejudiced, is not an effort to curtail free speech. Accusing someone of being treasonous for criticizing the president isn’t an effort to curtail free speech. It’s a disingenous, dishonest, and fallacious argument, but it’s not an attack of free speech in the slightest. The same could be said of calling those detractors ignorant rednecks. It’s a poor debating tactic, yes, but it’s not an attempt to prevent someone from speaking, merely a dishonest attempt to falsely portray what they’re saying. Certainly something that should be frowned on by one and all, but absolutely not any sort of an attack on someone’s first ammendment rights.
Please note which forum you’re in. Please keep political discussion out of this thread; if you wish to discuss the politics behind this thread, please do so in the appropriate forum. Thanks.
Indeed. I was incorrect, and I also used the term ‘circular logic’ incorrectly.
Further thought (I have a tendency to post without thinking) and re-reading makes it sound like I am supporting the (so far non-existant) furor over this song.
I don’t.
However, in the intrest of playing Devil’s Advocate, I think if we’re using the dictionary definition of bigot, it has to be applied to those supporting the message of the song as well. Since they tend to be “intolerant of any opinions differing from” their own.
Aside------
The song is ok. I’m not a country fan, but I found it both funny, and topical.
I love the idea of the song, and support equal rights for GLBT across the board.
And now, back to the actual discussion.
Do you really want to hash this out here, this ridiculous statement? Maybe you should open a GD thread. Unless your intent was just to drop a bomb and then walk away from it.
In the one interview I’ve heard with Nelson on the topic of the song, he pretty much stated up front that he thought it was pretty much fluff. He said that he had enjoyed it as a fun song after he got a copy of Sublette’s lyrics in the 1980s (that would have been prior to the Pansy Division release), but had not thought that it was a great song at the time. Then, with the hoopla over Brokeback Mountain, he recalled the song and thought it would now be fun to record.
He certainly didn’t make it sound as though he thought it was a serious contribution to either music or political discussion.
I’m surprised to find so little discussion over the lyrics here. The song moves from the sensitive
to the stereotypical
from line to line.
A guy doesn’t need to feel like a lady to be gay! Any good this song might do is going to be diminished by the stereotypes if perpetuates. I like Willie and on the whole I’m glad for his support and that he released this song. But would it be too much to ask for a step forward without the half step back?
I don’t see it as a stereotype so much as about the smashing of a stereotype; an acknowledgment of the universal feminine to be found in all men, but denied by stereotypical macho men like “cowboys.”
